Making or buying cabinets?

[subwoof]

I have 4 each 4331, 4333 and 4341 of various vintages. The 4331's have no components /networks and I do not have all the components for the rest ( yet ).

If size really matters I have a pair of 4315's ready to plug + play:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...highlight=4315

Here you get the same teenage bat killer tweeter and the same 4" big coil woofer ( in a 12" frame ) but in a size that has a better WAF.

For a variation on that theme, I have a pair of the SAME cabinets that are now 250Ti's ( with 7 coats of hand rubbed poly ) with a choice of LF components. These are considered the final evolution of the all cone 4 way system and although they do not have the sloped baffle, are modest in size.

To possibly list all the combinations, finish levels and such would be exhaustive and based on previous experience, a waste of time because somebody, somewhere, somehow will chime in ( on line ) with a less expensive alternative that ( fair or not ) will scrap the deal. And any number published will come back to haunt me should the cost of this effort rise even more...

So I suggest a large beer, some wrist guards, coax favor from the wife and do some serious reading in the LH library and the *many many* threads on this site that detail the parameters, nuances and success stories of them before making a decision.

The big JBL monitors, at this day and age, have provenience so no two pair will have the same history, sound or character. It's like old corvettes and mustangs that get refurbished once, twice and forever. Sometimes they just can't be fixed or "corrected" no matter the effort. These *are* 30 year old speakers. But DAMN they are fun to listen to and like the vintage car, put a grin on your face when you hit that volume knob..

Do some searching and get back to us. We are delighted to offer advice but please do the homework first..



sub

ps: yank your email address before your inbox speaks russian.

[robertbartsch]

Sub:
Ok, so you are waiting to acquire the necessary matching drivers to fill your now empty cabinets and then you will refurbish the boxes, fill them with drivers and offer them for sale as complete systems; right?

I have components and I'm just looking for a pair of cabinets. I really did not think this would be so complicated, so I'll design some cabinets and have them built locally.

I've owned Altec and JBLs for >40 years, and the hype surrounding the now old but still great technology never ceases to amaze me.

[subwoof]

There is no exact answer to your question - and we still do not know (A) what system you are looking for and (B) what components you have. If you had given us a list of the components you have already acquired it would help!

I have almost all the components for these but it takes time to have the surrounds replaced, frames reconed, replacement diaphrams ( or original model drivers ) found and in some cases, the components will *not* be original to take advantage of improvements since the originals were introduced.

And I am *not* certain that these will all be restored, again it's a case by case basis.

Again, what are you looking for?? you have posted many times on many threads but we still don't know...you say size restrictions but no specifics? You have assumed and supposed my intentions for the speakers I have but have not asked me directly what you want...??

I too have owned JBL's (and a very few altecs) for 30+ years and while the hype is sometimes just that, at least it's better than the psuedo-science that the high end brokers pass onto the public with "directional" interconnects, unobtanium rare metal connectors and oxygen free ( don't open the bag! ) cables that claim skin effect for audio frequencies....

sub

[Gary L]

I had to fill the cooler with beer before even thinking about responding here!

I'm half way between Westchester and the Finger Lakes region so it is safe to say we are all in the same boat.

I am a cabinetmaker and cringe at the thoughts being kicked around here in this thread.

Just take a moment to look at some real facts of the matter.

Real cabinets can easily be refilled and restored to make a complete pair of real, Vintage speakers.

Brand new, beautifully made cabinets can be much better then the originals yet will likely never command the $$ of a true 43XX and I don't care who makes them.

The cost of the raw materials alone will probably be more then the cost to buy and ship a real cabinet. The labor involved to build from scratch or to completely refinish to original glory is many hours of tedious work and very few who have these capabilities will even get involved if you are weighing the difference between buying decent used and building new from scratch.

There are so few of us who have the equipment and talent to build brand new cabinets to exact look A like specs that it isn't even an option because they won't work for less then nothing.

You simply cannot call a brand new cabinet for a 43XX filled with the exact load set a 43XX.

The way I see it, and I see it all the time, if what you want is a 43XX then your only real option is to buy all the components and a set of decent cabinets and have them restroed or DIY to a standard you are willing to accept. This might mean something as simple as reveneering and a finish coating to match what was original.

Any way you slice it, materials, labor and shipping are many times more expensive today then they were 20 or 30 years ago when these beautiful speakers were first made.

My rules of thumb are simple.

If the speaker can be bought and shipped in decent and repairable condition then this is the best option.

If you can buy the components and then find real and repairable cabinets to refinish and make them good again, this is option #2.

If you think for one minute that you can buy the guts and have a cabinetmaker produce high grade cabinets to put them in then you might better think again or dig deep and when you get all done you will never have a 43XX that can command the price of a nice original.

My hat is off to you Subwoff for saving that which can never be reproduced and I thumb my nose at those who would destroy perfectly good cabinets from years long gone because they are too expensive to ship and easier to build from scratch. I want what they are smoking!

BTW, most of the real but poorly designed and built cabinets can be upgraded with some internal bracing and tweeks we now understand as long as they are not shot beyond repair and were properly designed to begin with short of the lack of good bracing.

Gary

[4313B]

What do most folks do when they buy components and try to assemble a system from components;

Build the correct enclosures for the intended application.

If you can't build them then you're going to have to buy them.

And if you have them made for you don't assume that a cabinetmaker knows anything about building a loudspeaker enclosure or you might end up with a real expensive box of rattles and whistles.

[subwoof]

Well put.

Like big speakers, I have a shop full of big delta power tools and the 30 year wisdom to get this far with 9.75 fingers ( long story ). And a shop full of scopes, analyzers + such for the electronics.

I can and have made clones, replaced entire baffles and bottoms ( common ), filled, filed, foamed and futzed to bring all manner of vintage JBL's back to life.

And since I have an Electronics degree and have been fixing audio gear since I was old enough to drag them home from my AM paper route on the back of my 5 speed, the ability to buy an entire system and restore just about anything ( given time and effort if warranted ).

BUT BUT the many ( market and life ) variables over time make choices and efforts a balancing act and some amount of "unfunded mandate" is required to work on these. Had I speculated in the early 80's by buying apple and microsoft stock instead of JBL speakers to build / rent PA's I would be on the other side of the equation looking for instant gratification.

It's like that '69 chevy II with the big block 396 that doesn't have power ANYTHING, shit gas mileage, uncomfortable seats and steering that a tractor would envy...BUT when you mash that pedal, and see those bushes go by at warp speed, no amount of computer this, sensor that can make you wipe that grin off your face...

And knowing that it is a REAL chevyII, not a nova with a new suspension and paint job adds to the allure. Ever noticed the abundance of old mustangs these days? You can buy entire body panel sets and just about every part needed to restore / clone.

Just like col. Steve Austin.

sub

[mech986]

Sub,

Your pic of the saved cabinets is at once beautiful yet sad. Beautiful that the someone thought enough to save these cabinets and that JBL blue can't be beat.

Sad that others would gut these speakers and the parts are scattered to the winds.

But ones man's parts are another's step in restoration.

I've got 6 L300 cabinets in similar states because I couldn't bear to see them wasted either. Interesting that all of these cabs have the walnut veneer. Did one pair of 4333's lose their bevel edge face? Do you have any cabinets in Studio Gray finish? I have one pair of 4331's in that finish.

Can I use your pic for an avatar?

Bart

[subwoof]

As mentioned, every pair has a story...

The pair of 4333's without the trim were soffitt mounted and someone repainted them a slightly lighter shade - with a flash it screams at you..

I rebuilt a set of 4343's some years ago and cut a lot of spare trim ( and kept the survivors ) and left pieces exposed to the ambient light in the shop to darken...so they match better...

Not all were gutted - I simply do not store them that way and of course many components are in process and I am not in a hurry because food / gas + beer are first in line.

It really sucks when a full tank of gas cost the same as an E140 when I made scoops...

You can use the pic for an avatar and I have one message for the wives with size issues, look on the bright side. The collectibles your husband drags home could be rusty cars in your front + back yard..and driveway..and garage..

If you were closer I would like to swap cabinets and get some L300's. I had massive JBL PA speakers back when they were sold but could never justify the outlay. Funny how the scales tip and evolve.

I had a set of 4331's way back when that were grey - but I have found that to be pretty uncommon around here.

Just finished a set of L200's ( now 300's ) and my daughter will be taking them to college this fall.

insured...

sub

[Allanvh5150]

Gas in the US is cheap. Think of us down in NZ where the price is $2.13 a litre, roughly equates to $9 a gallon!

[subwoof]

I was teaching my oldest to drive earlier this year and commented that when I was in high school, the decimal point was over one place for gas...and pizza slices...and sneakers...

I learned to drive right before the gas lines in '73 and 5 bucks got beer, gas and park admission for a station wagon full of guys.

...sigh...

[Gary L]

LOL!

I learned to drive in the mid '60s when we had gas wars. All the stations tried to under sell the next guy and we could buy 4 gallons for a dollar.

Talk about a 180 degree turn, now it is 4 dollars for 1 gallon.

I am so glad the Saudi's are our friends and trading partners!

Gary

[robertbartsch]

OK, so everyone has their views on restoring vintage speakers using all the correct components and original restored cabinets.

I have owned and enjoyed an Altec VOTT system for >30 years, for example. So I can relate to these views on the old gear and I respect all of your opinions.

HOWEVER, I'M NOT RESTORING VINTAGE AUDIO GEAR FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT!

Last week, I purchsed some near new JBL Pro drivers (2226H, 2426H) for a price that is very low. Since my wife is not found of gray carpet covered trapaziod PA boxes, I need to swap the components into a more respectible showcase for one of our HT rooms.

Ideally, this would be a near furniture grade wood cabinet that is on the narrow side - say 18 or 19 inches. I suppose an older box that once contained 15" studio monitor drivers would do in a pinch but they are kinda wide for my needs.

[robertbartsch]

I began driving cars one year before the OPEC oil embargo of 1974.

In inflation adjusted dollors, gas today is LESS expensive than it was following the 70s embargo. Back then, we had gas wars, and on occasion, gas was sold for 16 cents per gallon. When the embargo hit, you could not buy gas very often but when it was availible, it sold for +70 cents a gallon.

In absolute terms, the price of gas in the late 70s, for example, was not prohibitively high for average Americans. However, the price increase of approximately 100% or more sent the economy into a tailspin for a large part of a decade. Jimmy Carter did help things either but oil was a big factor.

Unfortunately, the recent oil price spike is likely to result in a 70's type economic collapse for the US and a 1929 depression situation for other parts of the globe.

[cooky1257]

Gas in the US is cheap. Think of us down in NZ where the price is $2.13 a litre, roughly equates to $9 a gallon!

Ahem, you're luckyIts currently $2.36 a litre in the uk-$10 per gallon

[Gary L]

Well Robert, in your case I kind of doubt you will find any vintage cabinet made to order for your desired needs.

There is a computer program I think called Box Plot and when you have the specs of all the drivers you want to use you just punch them in and it will help you design the cabinets for those particular drivers.

As mentioned above, any cabinetmaker can build a box however there is a bit more to building superior boxes for audio use. There are many here who can help once you set forth the size and load set parameters.

I wanted model 19s for my living room but did not have 30" on each side to stuff real 19s into. I did have 24" and with help from members here I now have very nice model 19 components that fit both my available space and our furnishing decore. They cost twice as much but are worth a great deal less then real 19s if I wanted to sell them but they are priceless to us.





For those who want to hear some interesting facts about the price of oil, check out this long video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

Gary