frankensteins monitors

[demon]

hey there lansingfreaks!

i recently found out that i am willing to waste a lot of money with old studio monitors (click), a lot more than i expected, so i decided to take the money and walk the hard way.
i got these (mint and boxed) drivers:
-2404
-238oA + 245o
-22o6

a behringer DCX and 2 wooferboxes.
looks a lot like this:

(since im totally devoted to jbl, i decided to live on the floor like they do in jbl~japan)


the test-setup:
12'' plays up to 859 Hz and lives yet in closedbox, but this will change soon (i got them boxes by accident but they are nearly perfect) since im going to bassreflex the thing. a little eq gain at bottom-bottom helps me over empty feelings.

the horn goes all the way up from 859Hz to 2ooooHz, and i have tried to eq it a bit but without measurming, wich will be done next week (since i got no equipment myself).

the tweeters are still waiting to be used since im not finished building a fail-safe in case of a bad amp or so. i want them protected.

ok, what else...
the horndriver is beeing moved to the front so it is in line with the 12'', the horn is now standing out, but:
since i love the looks of altec VOTT and naked horns, i will keep the horn visible on top and if this works with the phase correction and the refraction of the higher signals from the 12'' on the back of the horn isnt to bad i will keep it standing out.
saying that, im still in pre-alpha-testing phase.

and talking about design, originally i wanted to paint the full body monitor-blue. but since it is a little different from the one i planned (this one i got per accident) ii would be better maybe to get some decent veneer.
i will see.


ok.
hope youre informed now!

cheers,
mikey

ps: oh wait!
i forgot about how they sound:
not to good, but not to bad either. im actually surprised that i can already enjoy the sound without having measured them.
imaging is great and the resolution is good, too.

[demon]

ok i activated the tweeters, rather good idea!!



its like a big party in my head, and everbody rofls.

oh my.
no its ok, yctually better than ok, see, im smiling quite a bit writing this, listening to* my new system.

XO information:
12'' = 28-787
horn = 787-7,32k
tweeter = 7,32k

*
"rogues gallery"
~pirate ballads, sea songs + chanteys~
==> excellent!!


cheers,
mikey

[pos]

looks good!
how do they compare to the 4410 ?

[demon]

the 441oA are very very good speakers imho. they still rule...
finding the right setup is kinda hard, and im missing the bassreflex very much.
also i want the room acoustics measured and then sweap a lot and measure that and then i will try to get them speakers as linear as possible.

but to answer your query:
the new ones are finer resolutive and do image a little better (already!). i blame the horn.
the kickbass is harder kicking (of course) and high bass is more potent.

the 441oA are way more in accord with themselfs, but i can do it.

=this new monitors have to rock, and i will work hard on them.
oh yeah, i forgot to tell you the name of my system (frankensteins monitors it is not), it is called:

" M A C H I N E "



cheers,
mikey

[pos]

So welcome to the M A C H I N E !

the 441oA are way more in accord with themselfs, but i can do it.

In my DIY I find it to be the hardest part. Sometime the speaker will sound good, and another day, on the very same song, it seems to sound like crap, depending on the mood. The "real" ingeneered speakers (in my case it was a 4412) always sound the same, and on all songs.

How are you going to integrate the offset of the horn in a cabinet?

[demon]

How are you going to integrate the offset of the horn in a cabinet?

if there arent to many problems with reflections behind the horn it will be kept outstandingly outstanding.
(because i love how this looks)
if i decide to make one big baffle i can use the DELAYs in my (DCX) digital crossover -this little wizard!
this moment i just EQed the horn and woofer according to the diagrams on the spec-sheet and it took me only a few minutes. amazing!!!

but anyway my ears hurt.
i will go take a walk in the park now.
cheers!
(im happy someone shows interest )


mikey

[Zilch]

(im happy someone shows interest )


mikey

We are all interested, of course; just watching you work your way through this.

Consider acquiring some measurement capability....

[Robh3606]

We are all hear. Get a sub going to fill in the bottom a bit and that system will floor you. You look like you are close, be careful in the death zone it may be a bit louder than you think if you have kind neighbors.

Have Fun

Rob

[demon]

im even more happy now!

ok, news:
i didnt take a walk in the park at all.
i stayed home and "worked" on my system, wich means i sat in front of it and listened to some overproduced pop-albums wich make my system sound good (make every system sound good).
i changed the XO between the 12'' and the horn, its 937Hz now.

interestingly, i cannot hear much differnces if the XO is changed a step of 1ooHz, though i use very narrow filters (48dB).
thinking that a quick change in the XO would be easy to hear im rather surprised -using only musical input, no testsignals.
testsignals i dont use yet, as well as the meas....youre right, i should get me some equipment, that would really pay off in the long run (techtoys always pay off).

pre-review:

the speakers are so much fun right now!!
im listening to michael jacksons "bad" this moment, wich i always like to use to check out different systems. got lots a dynamics and detail, and i really like the very hard funk it got.

ok:
the snares and similar effects KICK ASS, as well as the kickbass kicks kickass. very cool!! subbass performance is not to bad considering that i cut the 12'' at 28Hz and there is no bassreflex yet. hey, maybe i dont need one and get me a decent sub instead? im thinking of something nearfield-dipol...
wait, im blank. no sub in the near future.
the mids are very detailed, i didnt expect this. and are directly programmed into my brain, must be the nearfield+horn effect.
tweeting, supertweeting and beyond thunderdome is ok, i damped the top/back of the horn a bit to reduce reflections (wich i actually dont mind much yet), and turned the tweetervolume up a bit. i like a (hard) brilliant sound somehow, and the tweeter is THE tweeter you all know that.

imaging is great, as written earlier, but not as amazning as i could imagine imaging could be -->phase correction is the next topic.

in the near future, roomacoustics have to change too.



see you!
mikey

[demon]

hey!

im back.
last sunday we measured and equalized the system.
i didnt save the diagrams, but it was a totally flat line!
(with some minor ups, downs, peaks, and pikes)

sounds all good to me, i listened a lot of music this week and didnt touch any dials, i didnt want to jeopardize anything and wanted to tune myself to the speakers.

using only my ears to fit the system, i didnt work out, as i can clearly hear now. before measuring, i widely piled the sound up around 1,5 kHz, like i was getting the most soundinformation like that (yamaha ns1o).

-dont trust your ears-

cheers, mikey

[demon]

since richard, the good lad, borrowed me his microphone i tried some sweeps right now.
i dont know how to do this properly, i just tried my best.

(there is alwas one curve from the sweep (red) and one from the pinknoise: )
1. both left+right speakers togehter measured mono in sweetspot
2. left speaker alone in one meter distance
3. right (same)
4. layered curves 2 and 3




cheers
mikey

[demon]

ok!!

got ports installed, tuned to 5oHz. still need a sub, cant deny my craving...
i quickly measured them yesterday during the lunchbreak and they look shockingly like this:
= left and right speaker overlayed.
the microphone is about 16o cm in front of the horn, that is listening position.
i gotta check the tweeters!
man...

oh yeah, pictures (still a pu-ro-to-tai-pu):



cheers,
mikey

[demon]

i had an old kenwood for the bass-part, ive sold it so now theres an even older amp to work the lower frequencies -pioneer sx 2500 (a receiver).

its stacked upon the sansui 9090 and looks nice. of course, the both look nice!
measured quickley again and settled the differences to the kenwood (ka 8150), sounds ok (it has to).

-so, watching the blue lights, listening to cheesy fleetwood mac from the 8oies:




having a romantic evening why not?

mikey



ps: dont panic the are both cooled by a vent across the floor.

[demon]

bad news:
good ol' M A C H I N E has been dismantled.

good news:
got new parts for good ol' revised M A C H I N E !!

first i got a pair of 2123 midfreqdrivers, just as decent as the other drivers i have (bought from the same guy, belonged to the same spare-system), yesterday i ordered 48oo WATTS, the other day i bough a second DCX (why must it be so cheap, it ruins me) and to top it all off i finally found a pair of freakin' 236o ---YES!!!
i will catch them in a few weeks. the 236oies are a very rare item in europe, as i see it. even if i dont use them, i will place them in my apartment because of their very neat industrial looks. oh, looks like i finally became fond of these special horncraziness...


and then again...and thats rather hard to say...

i got problems below.
yes.



nothing moves below 5oHz.

ok, what to do?
im open for suggestions, really:

-subbass could be a tapped horn, tuned to 3oHz, 25Hz maybe. i heard a big one (2oHz) lately -and was deeply moved.
-subbass could be some dipole in close nearfield (best behind the listening position), maybe 2x2 15" (i could get some older rcf15", type unknown yet). never heard anything like that, but heard lots about it lately. personally, an idea that i really like (and probably my neighbours too). it would have to reach at least down to 3oHz, problematic.
-subbass: with this four yet unknown 15" i could build 4 smallish vented-box-subs to place in every corner of the room, hide them (with the DCX i can programm proper delays).

furthermore:
why not change the whole appearance? the cabinets i currently have are only prototypes.

-would it be a good idea to try my midrange and midbass in an open baffle.
going with the dipole sub it tickles me very much.

-or maybe put the 2206 into a compression-horn??
-can the 1o" midrange be put in such a compression-horn? -because ive never seen it.
= both ideas are kinda favorites, but i dont have much knowledge about those things...and i cant try much out myself, because im living in a little flat in the midst of the city, no garage to work in.

ok, thats seems to be a lot of questions, but i dont need answers. dont be scared.
but if you have anything to say about it, please share youre thoughts!!

thanks a bunch,
mikey

[pos]

2360


here a some horns for JBL 10":
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=120327887248

these are monacor MRH 4660, 75°x30°