2122H vs 2202H for 200-800Hz

[Guido]

I have only managed to obtain one 2205 basket that I could recone. I would need 3 more. And the price for reconing these is almost as high as reconing a 2245H.

If you want to go that route send me a pm. I always have 15" baskets.

Recone Price for 2245 is nearly double than recone for 2234.

If you are interested in a quote, pm me.

[Mr. Widget]

Widget, Don't you have a DIY setup with a Sub1500 + 8" (2108H?) + tad horn?

No, never used them. I tried a few 10" and 12" woofers from JBL and others and ended up with a 10" TAD TL-1102. A wonderful little old school alnico woofer that looks a lot like a vintage JBL.

What do you think about the blending issue betwwen a 10" and a H9800?

Sounds screwy to me. I am not saying that blending a 10" woofer to it would be easy, but I don't buy the notion that somehow a 15" woofer will more seamlessly blend with it. But then again, there are many theories about how to get great sound and there are many different approaches that end up working.


Widget

[subwoof]

The pattern that a typical 15 / horn system has can be described as a hourglass - where the dispersion ( in the horizontal ) is tapered at the crossover point because the 15 is run too high ( and becomes beamy ) and the horn too low ( and loses pattern control ).

I have built many a box with combinations of 10,12,15 ( and even an 18 ) coupled with just about every size and type horn / driver that JBL has made.

And after all this I *STILL* cannot say which combination works the best although the 4430 combo is the easiest to work with for a plug+play install.

In my shop are 4 each 2226H / 2450SL that have either 2381 or 2352 horns. Since I cross them over at 800, you would think that the larger horn would perform the same BUT it's performance in the vocal range is smoother and large string instruments sound great even at high output / close range. The 2381 however works better for loud music playback and generic "PA" apps.

It would take a great deal of measurements and time to determine why ( most probably the vertical pattern control ) but they would not necessarily translate to someone elses project or taste.


So....

Given the many variables in the horn geometry(s), cone diameter/mass/suspension, HF driver/diaphram and of course the crossover / box it's a wonder that so many variations exist and actually WORK.

For a quick club project I recycled the components that the old PA had and made a pair of dual K151 / 2390 / 075 cabinets that were powered by the OLD crown "D" amps and a urei 525.....it sounded simply AMAZING and looked really cool.

Someday I will make another set..


sub

[Zilch]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=17010

[steveh]

Does anyone have any experience or opinons on the TAD TM 1201 12" driver as a replacement for the 2202? Any thoughts as to how it would perform in 4355's in lieu of the 2202's? Good thread, made me wonder about a few things. Thanks

[pos]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=17010

Yes these 251J/2251J-2 would go low enough!
here is the spec sheet: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=11985

but the sensibility is quite low with 91.6dB/1w/1m

They have aquaplas + mass ring.
Maybe adding only one of the two to a 2251 would do the trick?

[pos]

Does anyone have any experience or opinons on the TAD TM 1201 12" driver as a replacement for the 2202? Any thoughts as to how it would perform in 4355's in lieu of the 2202's? Good thread, made me wonder about a few things. Thanks

Yes, and the TL-1101 and TL-1102 are also intersting (but 11").

Looking at the simulations the TM-1201 doen't go really low, with -2db at 300Hz and -6db at 200Hz in a 0.1 cu ft (!) closed box.

The TM 11" work better there.

[pos]

What about the Altec 414 16C ?
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=018

[pos]

Would a 2206H be a serious option, against a 2202H for example?
It would allow me to cross the 2245 even lower, but would it have as much "snap" as a 2202H?...

I know Gold Sound are using it with a 2245 in the 80-1200Hz range in their #14 kit.
pantaNS is also using it above a 2245 in the 150-800Hz range in its DIY:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?p=14663
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=1859

I have an opportunity to buy a pair of 2202H (the other options are more difficult to find, or too pricy for now), but 2206H show up regularly on ebay, so please give me your opinion as I have to decide quickly.

[Earl K]

Would a 2206H be a serious option, against a 2202H for example?
It would allow me to cross the 2245 even lower, but would it have as much "snap" as a 2202H?...

- Yes ! the 2206H is a nice midbass woofer with lots of Xmax capability and has a nice strong motor .
- I'd use them in a 3 way project before I'd use the 2202H / mostly because I'd want to use any 12" down to 75 or 100 hz .

- Yes, you'll give up some "snap" by using a heavier coned 12" ( like the 2206 ) vs a lighter coned 12" ( such as the 2202 ) . Those are just the facts of life when reaching for a lower crossover point .


- The 2206H is a current production model that's easy enough to buy and then resell ( if they don't meet with your approval ) .

<>

What about the 414-16C ?

Buy 8 ohm woofers ( unless you're a tube guy ) . 8 ohm drivers are easier to acquire ( & then resell ) / plus more importantly, virtually all "off the shelf" crossovers/networks are designed around this impedance .

[spkrman57]

[quote=Earl K;211586- I'd use them in a 3 way project before I'd use the 2202H / mostly because I'd want to use any 12" down to 75 or 100 hz .

- Yes, you'll give up some "snap" by using a heavier coned 12" ( like the 2206 ) vs a lighter coned 12" ( such as the 2202 ) . Those are just the facts of life when reaching for a lower crossover point .
[/quote]

If the bandwith desired utilizing the 2202 in a 3-way were around 300hz - 1200hz, would that be be a usable design in your opinion?

My other option is to use the 2202's I have in a corner-loaded back horn. I think loading to approx 80hz might be possible with the right room size!

Regards, Ron

[pos]

thanks Earl
I have let the 2202H go, and I will be waiting for some 2206H now.

[Mr. Widget]

thanks Earl
I have let the 2202H go, and I will be waiting for some 2206H now.

Sounds like a good decision to me.


Widget

[Earl K]

If the bandwith desired utilizing the 2202 in a 3-way were around 300hz - 1200hz, would that be be a usable design in your opinion?

- I suppose, but as I first mentioned, I've just never warmed up to the 2202 & I've heard a few of them in 4350 monitors ( since I used to "hang" at a studio that had a pair / way back in the 80s' ).

- Anyways, virtually all the leg work has been done by JBL ( GT et all ) to get their plethora of 10s to "mesh nice" with their 15s' & 18s .

My other option is to use the 2202's I have in a corner-loaded back horn. I think loading to approx 80hz might be possible with the right room size!

- Yeh but , you tend horn-load most things ( which I don't ) .
- I just don't have an opinion about this driver when it's horn-loaded.

[pos]

I have a pair of older Altec 414-Z drivers I'll eventually get around to trying. I am really curious about them. The fellow I sold my 4355 clones to ended up using a pair of them in those cabinets.

I agree with you about the 2202. I think it is a large part of why I am not crazy about the 4350/55s.

I also agree that the 10" JBLs in general are all quite outstanding woofers for their intended applications.



Widget

Here is a blog entry of a japanese guy that tried a 414 and 2213nd in place of the 2202 in his 4350 :
http://translate.google.fr/translate...hl=fr&ie=UTF-8

The automatic translation is blurring everything, unforlunatly