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Thread: Altec Model 19 First Impressions

  1. #1
    Webmaster Don McRitchie's Avatar
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    Altec Model 19 First Impressions

    As most of the readers of this forum know, I picked up a pair of mint Altec Model 19’s two weeks ago. However, there was a significant problem. They had been sitting unused for the past 20 years. The compression drivers were not working when I first hooked them up. An examination revealed that three of the four tinsel leads had snapped at the 90 degree bend. I immediately ordered replacements from Great Plains Audio. However, due to a shipping screw-up, they will not be mailed out until today. Fortunately, “John” on our forum lent me a pair of 808-8A’s as a temporary replacement. I tried mounting these drivers, but could not get the 802-8G’s to dislodge from the horns. The gaskets appear to be glued in place. Therefore, I did the next best thing and swapped the diaphragms. I am now running Symbiotic diaphragms in the 802-8G’s.

    Upon getting the new diaphragms installed, I hooked up the speakers to my Threshold 400A amp, Parasound preamp and Kyrocera CD player. My first impressions were not good. There were no highs. Cymbals sounded recessed and clipped. Bass response seemed anemic and boomy. Worst of all, the mids were piercing and grating. In summary, the Altec cliché of being all midrange seemed evident in spades. When all seemed lost, I thought, how would this system respond to EQ? I have a 4 band parametric SAE equalizer that I have not used for years. When I tried using it with my Dahlquist DQ-10’s, it seemed to create more problems than it solved, so I took it off line. Now I decided to see if the Altecs could be tamed by it.

    The short answer is – yes. EQ worked wonders on the 19’s. The first thing I did was hit the 2khz midrange hump with 4db of cut across a two and a half octave band. This made an amazing difference. Vocals that were previously raspy became smooth and delicate. More significantly, it affected the overall forward balance of the system, resulting in a much more natural presentation. It also greatly improved imaging. Previously, the mids so dominated, that a vocalists sounded like they were out in front of everything. Now, all instruments can be perceived with a proper spatial perspective.

    I next added around 4db of boost centered at 40hz over a one octave band. I combined this with 2db of cut centered at 300hz over a three octave band. This got rid of the midbass boom while providing a solid and tight bass foundation. Finally, I added 12db of boost centered at 14khz over a one and a half octave band and this restored the shimmering highs.

    All-in-all, I’m quite pleased with the results. It still doesn’t have the neutrality of my DQ-10’s, but it’s not far off. Further, the system has bass and dynamics that the DQ-10’s could never hope to touch. I’m looking forward to getting the correct Great Plains diaphragms to see if this makes a further improvement. I have no doubt that the high end response issues should largely go away. I also think that the midrange issue should also be improved. However, my gut instinct is that equalization will still be a key factor in getting the best out of this system, even with the proper diaphragms.
    Regards

    Don McRitchie

  2. #2
    Todd W. White
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    I suspect that the crossover components - particularly the capacitors - have changed value over the years as they have been sitting who-knows-where unused. You ought to revampm them with new parts of the same values.

    The Model 19's I am used to are not like that at all...although the Symbiotik diaphragms ARE hard to listen to....especially over time...

  3. #3
    Webmaster Don McRitchie's Avatar
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    Todd

    Has Iconic Manufacturing finished development of their upgraded Model 19 cross-over?
    Regards

    Don McRitchie

  4. #4
    Todd W. White
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    We have the direct replacement that Jerry Hubbard has re-designed for us using higher quality components and the original schematic.

    This crossover, which can be built and fastened to your original faceplate (for the cosmetic-conscious), matches the electrical characteristics of the original Model 19 XO exactly, but the parts are MUCH better. I built a lot of these way back when my company was manufacturing M19 reproductions for people when Altec had just stopped making them, and they worked very, very well.

    A SUPERCrossover for the Model 19 is a ways off - we're working on an all-new XO for the 604-8K, to be followed by ones for other 604's.

  5. #5
    Webmaster Don McRitchie's Avatar
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    What's the cost?
    Regards

    Don McRitchie

  6. #6
    Todd W. White
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    I'll be happy to find out for you - Jerry should have the new layout done this week.

  7. #7
    Tom Loizeaux
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    Don,
    I think the alunimum diaphragms make the 802s sound best. Even the new diaphragms from Great Plains, which are heat-treated aluminum, will sound better then Pascalite, or other,"high-power" diaphragms.
    I have a pair of Altec Valencias in my living room for "casual listening" (my serious room with JBLs in in the basement). I find the Valencias very satisfying... except they might lack a touch of ultra high end and do need a subwoofer to get much below 50Hz. Adding a powered subwoofer, even a cheap consumer one (JBL PB-12 for example), and running the Altecs full range, will allow you to just subtly fortify the lowest end. Altec didn't make these for true full frequency response.
    There's something about efficient 15" speakers, teamed with a conpression driver, mounted in a large cabinet that needs to be experienced.

    Tom

  8. #8
    jbl
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    Hi Don,
    Why not replace the Altec drivers with JBL's? The 19's are great looking cabinets.

    Ron

  9. #9
    Todd W. White
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    Angry

    WHY?????

    BECAUSE THEY WON'T SOUND GOOD IF HE DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    JBL indeed...............

  10. #10
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Calm down Todd, I don't think Don's expectations are too high... he knows they're only Altecs.

    Widget

  11. #11
    Todd W. White
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    NAWTY! NAWTY!!!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE YOUR MOUTH SCRUBBED OUT WITH LAVA SOAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. #12
    Alex Lancaster
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    Talking

    Yeah, forget about substituting JBL´s in Altec cabinets, it would be like putting a newer Mercedes engine in Your ´57 Packard.

  13. #13
    Charley Rummel
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    Though I'm not fortunate enough to own the Altec Model 19 pair, I have had the pleasure of experiencing their performance, ("..OK, boys! Nice and LOUD!", said Billy Cox to Mitch Mitchell and Jimi Hendix as they began to play...)

    Don, whatever your tastes are, I think you'll be very happy after restoring these fine speakers.

    Regards,
    Charley

  14. #14
    Webmaster Don McRitchie's Avatar
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    Play nice guys. Actually, I don't think there would be any benefit is substituting a small format JBL driver for a small format Altec. They are both very competent drivers. I believe the biggest issue is the resonant 811B horn. If I can properly damp that horn, I think a lot of the problems I have been experiencing will go away. Not to mention that fact that I am not using the proper HF diaphragms.
    Regards

    Don McRitchie

  15. #15
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Play nicely....?

    All kidding aside, I would love to have a pair of Model 19s, and the extra room to keep them. I think they are the best sounding speakers that Altec ever made. I have to admit I haven't heard a pair in many, many years.

    Widget

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