10" mid-bass drivers?

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Lads,

We've been discussing my "dream system", and it includes a 15" wooder, 10" mid-bass driver, 1" compression driver with horn/lense assembly, and a slot tweeter. Been thinking about that 10 mid-bass driver. My original plan was to use a JBL LE10A as my mid-bass driver, crossed at 90 HZ to the 15" bass transducer. Some helpful JBL Brothers here, have suggested that there are other JBL 10" drivers that might do a better job in that role than my LE10A's. I haven't seen such drivers, but am certainly interested in learning more about them.

Last night, I dug out an old catalog from Gold Sound, from Colorado, and noted with great interest that the system designer had used two JBL 10 drivers that I've always considered sound reinforcement transducers! My catalog, which is actually just a several page leaflet, dates from August 1981. In it, system #8 uses a JBL 2115 as a bass driver. In system #14, which seems to be the designer's flagship model, uses a 2245H as the bass driver, a combination of a JBL E-110 and a Heppner horn for the range speakers, and a JBL 2403 as the high end driver.

I've always considered the 2115 and the E-110 to be MI speakers, best used for musical instruments, or sound reinforcement. Am I wrong about that? Will speakers such as these offer a good mid-bass performance? Gold Sound stated in their catalog that system #14 would outperform JBL's 4343, L-212, and 4350!!! Thoughts, opinions, comments, please? Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[toddalin]

Greetings, Lads,

We've been discussing my "dream system", and it includes a 15" wooder, 10" mid-bass driver, 1" compression driver with horn/lense assembly, and a slot tweeter. Been thinking about that 10 mid-bass driver. My original plan was to use a JBL LE10A as my mid-bass driver, crossed at 90 HZ to the 15" bass transducer. Some helpful JBL Brothers here, have suggested that there are other JBL 10" drivers that might do a better job in that role than my LE10A's. I haven't seen such drivers, but am certainly interested in learning more about them.

Last night, I dug out an old catalog from Gold Sound, from Colorado, and noted with great interest that the system designer had used two JBL 10 drivers that I've always considered sound reinforcement transducers! My catalog, which is actually just a several page leaflet, dates from August 1981. In it, system #8 uses a JBL 2115 as a bass driver. In system #14, which seems to be the designer's flagship model, uses a 2245H as the bass driver, a combination of a JBL E-110 and a Heppner horn for the range speakers, and a JBL 2403 as the high end driver.

I've always considered the 2115 and the E-110 to be MI speakers, best used for musical instruments, or sound reinforcement. Am I wrong about that? Will speakers such as these offer a good mid-bass performance? Gold Sound stated in their catalog that system #14 would outperform JBL's 4343, L-212, and 4350!!! Thoughts, opinions, comments, please? Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

If you want to try this, I have a pair of E110s for sale for $125/pr. One works fine and the other needs a recone.

[4313B]

I've always considered the 2115 and the E-110 to be MI speakers, best used for musical instruments, or sound reinforcement. Am I wrong about that? Will speakers such as these offer a good mid-bass performance? Gold Sound stated in their catalog that system #14 would outperform JBL's 4343, L-212, and 4350!!! Thoughts, opinions, comments, please? Thanks, and God Bless!

The 4344 and 4345 replaced the 4343. The L212 was a completely different ballgame. The 4350 was replaced by the 4355.

I know Ron personally and if he said his systems outperformed those from JBL then he was probably right, based on his perception. I heard quite a few of his systems and I preferred mine. Go figure. :dont-know

Some people really like the impact those light coned drivers sporting aluminum dustcaps exhibit. Take Todd up on his offer and see what you think. Worst case you can just cut those aluminum dustcaps out and replace them with paper dustcaps if the "zing" is too much for you. You could also just coat the dustcaps with aquaplas and smooth out their top end response while giving them a wee bit more bottom end. I'd probably just recone them as 2122H's or 2123H's and call them good to go.

[hjames]

Greetings - tho we're not all "Lads" ..

Not sure you've seen it, but there is a thread with some info on the various 10 inch drivers that Subwoof and a number of folks contributed to last year ... http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=16962

might be helpful ...

Greetings, Lads,

We've been discussing my "dream system", and it includes a 15" wooder, 10" mid-bass driver, 1" compression driver with horn/lense assembly, and a slot tweeter. Been thinking about that 10 mid-bass driver. My original plan was to use a JBL LE10A as my mid-bass driver, crossed at 90 HZ to the 15" bass transducer. Some helpful JBL Brothers here, have suggested that there are other JBL 10" drivers that might do a better job in that role than my LE10A's. I haven't seen such drivers, but am certainly interested in learning more about them.



Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Friends,

First, humble apologies to our Senorita Member! I love it that some members of the Fairer Sex love JBL stuff!!! Most of the time, I hang out at a stove collector's site, where almost all of us are "Lads". Force of habit in addressing all of you by that term, and I'll try not to do that again!

Todd, I may take you up on your kind offer, but it will have to be later this Summer. Should you get a chance to sell you E-110's before that, please do. If they are still available later this Summer, then we can talk at that time. I have K120's, and 2130's, and have thought about going up to a 12" mid-bass driver, as well. Also, I have two very nice 10" Pyledriver transducers that I believe would make wonderful mid-bass drivers, as well, though using them would keep my system from being "all JBL"!

Thanks, to all who sent along info and suggestions!! Much about which to think, and all of it fun!!! Seems quite a bit of experimentation is in the offing, later this Summer! Take care, Lads and Lasses, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Chas]

My 2 cents worth: I have both the 2122 and 2123 and they are very, very nice with the requisite networks and enclosure. I can't decide which I prefer, they both have some very good, yet different, qualities.

I also have a pair of E110's but bought them to recone into another pair of 2123's. I never thought of using them as-is, so thanks for the heads up 4313B.

[JBLnsince1959]

I'll throw in 2 more cents. ( and hopefully not confuse things)

It's been my personal experience that 10" midbass-midrange speakers sounds really "thin" under 300Hz ( and more so under 200). I much perfer a 12" or larger for the 100 to 300 midbass range( and upto 700) BUT, understand I'm Bias.

once you have the transducers inplace, get an active crossover and try different Freg ( 300, 250, 200 etc) and see how it sounds.

One of my favorite 12" trans is the 2202 ( wish they made a "newer" version), BUT I feel that over 800 the 10's do a better job. It's a balancing act for sure..

I guess what I'm saying is leave yourself some wiggle room for testing when it comes to the crossover points

the 2123 is a great speaker ( I've got'em), you might want to check out the "newer" 2012 ( got those too)

good luck

[pos]

One of my favorite 12" trans is the 2202 ( wish they made a "newer" version),

check the 2020h :
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/maxout.htm#2020H

[JBLnsince1959]

check the 2020h :
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/maxout.htm#2020H

I'm aware of it, but just because it's a 12" doesn't mean it's the same as a 2202. It has a 3" voice coil and not a 4" like 2202. It reminds of a 2012 with a bigger cone for more sound

I have the 2020's ( in boxes) as yet I haven't done a side by side compaison but it looks like more of a midrange speaker and not a mid bass. However, since i haven't done "live" comaprisons, I could be wrong

one of the reasons why I like the larger trans in the 100 to 500 range is the size of the voice coil. there are lot of fundamentals from the human voice and instructments in that range.

[4313B]

It's been my personal experience that 10" midbass-midrange speakers sounds really "thin" under 300Hz ( and more so under 200). I much perfer a 12" or larger for the 100 to 300 midbass range( and upto 700) BUT, understand I'm Bias.

Really? You prefer the 2202 over the 112/2108 or 2122 below ~ 300 Hz? How do you like the 2204?

[JBLnsince1959]

Really? You prefer the 2202 over the 112/2108 or 2122 below ~ 300 Hz? How do you like the 2204?

I didn't say I used the 2202 under 300 but that they were one of my favorite 12", ( I may have been misleading and that was a wrong example), BUT I do like a 12" or larger under 300, just me

however, I have two 2204's that I got from the JBL man here in KC when the owner didn't pick them up along with some 2206's .. not bad woofers

Bottom-line, is for Doc Mark to check out what he likes

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Friends,

I can't thank you all enough for all the comments, suggestions, and opinions! Much appreciated!! This site is an outstanding resource for those of us who love things JBL!!

After reading all the comments, I've decided what I'm going to do. First, the bass. I am going to build two 5 cubic foot cabinets for my pair of 2235H's, and tune them accordingly. Next, I'm additionally going to build a single 8 cubic foot cabinet for that 18" 2242HPL I scored at the swap meet a few weeks back. I will plan on using just the two 15" drivers, but will try the 18", crossed over electronically very low, just to see what it sounds like, and if I enjoy the added punch it offers, if any! This will be fun, and interesting!

Now, to the high end. A couple of things are givens, one of which is that I'm going to stick with the components I have on hand. That includes two 2420 compression drivers, two 2307 horns, and two 2308 lenses, plus two 2405 slot tweeters. These components will be crossed over at 1,200HZ, and 10KHZ, respectively.

Since, all along, I've planned on the woofers being separate from the mid-bass and high end, I'm going to continue along this path. Also, I will mount the horn mid and high components on a piece of hardwood board, for testing purposes, before putting them into a cabinet.

Now comes the part of which I've been vascillating. For the mid-bass, I believe it's best for me to experiment quite a bit more than I was at first planning. This part is really going to be fun, now that I've decided upon my course of action! I'm going to build several smaller enclosures, which can be made to house several different mid-bass woofers. I'll test my LE10A's, and very possibly the E-110's, if I get them from Todd, which I'm leaning towards doing. I'll also test my PyleDriver 10" mid-bass drivers, too, as well as my 12" drivers, the K120's, and 2130's, in boxes made for them. Tuning will depend upon each driver being tested, and I will use my Crown VFX2A variable crossover to test different crossover points, as suggested by JBLnsince1959! I figure that sealed boxes will work perfectly for use above 300HZ, and if I want to go lower, I can set them up for porting at that time. I have two RTA's, one from Soundcraftsman, and the other from Audio Control. Using these, I will "see" what each driver is actually doing, and if I have any anomalies about which I need to be concerned.

I will stack the mid-bass boxes on top of the woofer bins, and then affix the high range components on top of the mid-bins. By swapping woofers, and varying the crossover points, I believe I can get a pretty good idea about what I like, and what doesn't sound good to my own old ears!

Then, when all is said and done, I'll make my decisions about the mid-bass drivers, and make proper enclosures for the mid-bass and highs! Yes, I do believe that all this will work out rather well, once I finally get time to do what needs be done!! That should be in mid-July, or a little later. Bums me out that I will have to wait that long. But, with the demands of our small business, the decision is not mine, especially at this time of the year.

Many thanks to you all, for your kind help and suggestions!! I hope to be able to meet some of you folks from So. Cal. one of these days, and we can cuss and discuss all this stuff in person! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[hjames]

Lotsa folks have gone that kind of route in the past ... with various budgets ...
I'm not a cabinet builder, so I used existing cabinets and built up a 4 way system in the thread here, starting from a pair of4320 2-ways and adding slots and later adding 10 inch mid-bass drivers, and building a crossover ...

some stuff and a picture is here - http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...?t=9796&page=2

Laster I found a pair of empty L-200 cabinets and moved parts into them - http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...t=15317&page=9

More recently I found a pair of 4341 4-ways and bought them ...

[Doc Mark]

Lotsa folks have gone that kind of route in the past ... with various budgets ...
I'm not a cabinet builder, so I used existing cabinets and built up a 4 way system in the thread here, starting from a pair of4320 2-ways and adding slots and later adding 10 inch mid-bass drivers, and building a crossover ...

some stuff and a picture is here - http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...?t=9796&page=2

Laster I found a pair of empty L-200 cabinets and moved parts into them - http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...t=15317&page=9

More recently I found a pair of 4341 4-ways and bought them ...

Hi, Heather,

WOW! You did a wonderful job on the renovation you did on those old JBL cabinets!! Very nicely done!

I tried to win a pair of old 4333A speakers on FleaBay today, thinking I might use them to begin my own project. But, auction's end found me blown completely out of contention for those Old Timers!!! No problem, as that helped me to decide upon my course of action, and I'm pretty excited about it all, now!

Thanks, again, for your very kind words, and for sharing your own fantastic project with me! Again, WELL done!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JBLnsince1959]

sounds like a plan.......