MUNICH HIGH END SHOW 2008

[Bruno GINARD]

Ascendo speakers, convergent audio technology amp and pre, audio aero cd player.

[Guido]

Also a nice system

http://www.adam-audio.com/hifi/english/oss/oss_data.htm

[Bruno GINARD]

Guido,

I realize i have made a mistake : not to ask this forum last week if someone goes to the show !.... it has been a good place for an encounter.
i have spent 3 days in Munich (wonderfull city...) for pleasure, with one day for Hi Fidelity ..

I liked HIraga because it's near the listening i have had with a 604 in an ONken box, several years ago.

Avantgarde is a wonderfull "cinemascope" system...and i'have found MBL....curious.
I agree with you for the Cabasse speakers..


But globally..........this business is going a little bit crazy... How can we compare the sound of a 100.000 € system with a..........4500 € used pair of good JBL speakers ( for exemple !)

regards

[Mr. Widget]

But globally..........this business is going a little bit crazy... How can we compare the sound of a 100.000 € system with a..........4500 € used pair of good JBL speakers ( for exemple !)

You can't and shouldn't. That said, there are things about a pair of 4345s (or pick your favorite JBL) that will blow away many of those 100.000 € systems, but every one of those probably offer things that the big JBLs don't.

Value? It is hard to argue with these vintage systems.

I have heard offerings from many of the lines you have mentioned and none of them made me wish I had the room or cash for their systems, but even the Cabasse was interesting though not my thing either.

Were there many offerings from America? I'd think with the dollar being so low there might be some good deals being offered from over here.


Widget

[demon]

yeah but american products arent any cheaper because the dollar is low, its only the acquisition is higher...
------------------------------------
well -thanks for the pictures!
ive seen many pictures of the show lately in the german forums, and im kinda embarrassed by these huge pimp-lp-machines and the speaker-cabels as thick as a firehose. like umbilical cords...brrrrr...
anyway, i always get some weird feelings seeing this 2o'ooo-leagues-under-the-see-(of)-style audio equipment.
just look at the MBL stuff.
man!
all shiny flashy sparkling but does it really connect you to the music? or is it simply a bentley for the living room?


i dont know...

cheers,
mikey

[Hoerninger]

... i always get some weird feelings ...

Is a Rolex always a chronometer?
(Take it easy .)
__________
Peter

[Guido]

Guido,

I realize i have made a mistake : not to ask this forum last week if someone goes to the show!

But globally..........this business is going a little bit crazy... How can we compare the sound of a 100.000 € system with a..........4500 € used pair of good JBL speakers ( for exemple !)

regards

It would have been nice to meet. But I didn't ask either

You can't compare let's say a 4435 to these systems. Totally different approach. Believe it or not: I would prefer my 4435 to all of these systems and I still haven't tried the TAD drivers
What I can compare is my 2 way system using 1500AL + 2435Be drivers. It outperforms all systems I heard. Now you can say it is because I built them my own and that is biasing me. But in an A/B Test........... I wouldn't bet on the high price systems.

You can't and shouldn't. That said, there are things about a pair of 4345s (or pick your favorite JBL) that will blow away many of those 100.000 € systems, but every one of those probably offer things that the big JBLs don't. Widget

Well said Widget.

Were there many offerings from America? I'd think with the dollar being so low there might be some good deals being offered from over here. Widget

The show was dominated by German, British and US products. Only a few japanese companys left in that market.
We do not "feel" the low dollar here. The importers mostly "swallow" the profit

[Guido]

Regarding value for the money:

I think I can safely say that I have a bit knowledge what it costs to build a nice speaker.
During the last months a lot of Thiel ceramic chassis based speakers where released. Thiel chassis are expensive, yes but take 4 of them, add a handcrafted cabinet. Add a handsoldered crossover made with most expensive components. Will you end up in the 50.000 Euro range? Never!!
I do also not believe in high R+D costs. Remember that most of the companys use no own chassis.

I don't want to start a rant. Calculate yourself....

Oh and see what Focal did. They stopped selling raw components. Imagine why?
The Grande Utopia chassis where available as raw components earlier. Everyone would have been able to calculate

[Guido]

JBL wasn't present! This was a shame.
But we shouldn't blame JBL as it was the representant for the JBL High End product line "SUN AUDIO" that decided not to be at the show.

We SHOULD blame JBL for choosing this representant. I know from 2 pairs everest that wasn't bought because of.....
I better stop here not to be sued.

[demon]

Is a Rolex always a chronometer?

yes it is! except when its not working or something.

(Take it easy .)

N E V E R ! !


cheers,
mikey

[Bruno GINARD]

Price of American parts ( JBL/MC INtosh, ARC...) are IMO always the same in Europe for 4 or 5 years.

THe difference between USA and FRANCE for a KLipsch speaker ( as an example) is incomprehensible if you compare the difference between € and $ . Our 19.6 % VAT and cost of transit can't explain the difference.

LIke GUido think, back home i always love my speakers...my memory ( not very accurate...) said to me that some little differences on certain speakers could make for me a desire of change.... but finally i will prefer the change of the totality of the type of sound, that's to say to go to a completly different listening ...

[vuki]

I was there for two days.
I really liked Hiraga - greatest sound of the show (to my ears).
Isophone Arabba were also nice and so were IKON Akustik with those KRs.
Snell, Dali Megaline and Cessare (with TAD drivers!) weren't bad either.
MBL, ADAM, Gamut, Kharma and few other 10s kiloeuros speakers were very dissapointing.
With those prices there was no "value for money" products. Even CD's were expensive.
But with cold beer and fine sausages - who cares.

[nrwjbl]

JBL wasn't present! This was a shame.
But we shouldn't blame JBL as it was the representant for the JBL High End product line "SUN AUDIO" that decided not to be at the show.
We SHOULD blame JBL for choosing this representant. I know from 2 pairs everest that wasn't bought because of.....
I better stop here not to be sued.

Well JBL's major distributor in Germany seems to meet problems with other product lines too.
I sent mail asking for prices and details about updates for my Lexicon Processor MC-12 in january 08. Remember: Lexicon specially points out that update-service as a special value!
In march 08 I had to send a reminder and asked for a dealer's address. No answer arrived, even sent twice.

I sent informations to a well known hifi magazine over here about such mishandling of customers. For a wonder someone from distributor tried to contact me - too late for me now, as I decided for future investments only buying equipment from companies that guarantee full customer service.

I'm specially touched by that unappreciative behavior as I payed a lot of money for my Lexicon processor plus Mark Levinson CD-Player, ML DA/converter and ML poweramp that came from same distributor.
Some people call Germany a "desert of service". Seems to be true in that case.

I've been around in different parts of the world, can't remember a place that treats customers like this, customers who are ready spending money - what can be more enjoyable for a dealer !!!???
Anyway I know what equipment is suitable for me, but only if national distribution line has reached same level of product quality - I will pay cash.

Good to have personally known specialists who help without any problem. Some of them you find just right here in the forum.

Good to know there are some decent "oldies" available in the garage that guarantee music pleasure even for decades without "urging" distributors.

peter

[JBL 4645]

Bruno
Bravo pictures looks like a wonderful day out at the convention.