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Thread: ;y little naive friend and 4341 drivers

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    ;y little naive friend and 4341 drivers

    Hello. Sory guys, but i didn`t menage to find an ansver browsing the forum. I do not know much about this things.

    Friend of mine traded his Usher speakers for a set of new Harbert`s 5 and so called set of drivers for 4343 or 4341 monitors. Since a kind of wood work is my job, I was picked up to make him a cabinets.
    After he showed me a drivers and after my lurking around the net about JBL`s I realised that he did not get what he thought he will get. 2405 are OK, 2420 with horns allso, 2231 does look as 2231 with alnico magnet assembly but on the membranes there is a 2235H sigh writen with chalk (woofers where reconed). Main problem is 2121 which is not 2121 but LE10A. Can he use it in either 4343 or 4341 project or is it waste of time? He is woried that LE10A will be inferior to originals soundvise. 2121 will be hard to get as I can see...

    Thank you for any opinion or suggestions.

    Marijan

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    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
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    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...98&postcount=5

    You can recone LE10A's as 2121's if need be. Be aware that the latest C8R2121 recone kits from JBL have the wrong center dome in them and won't lay properly. You'll need to find some old LE10A or PR10 domes and use them.
    maybe this can help...


  3. #3
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Information and pictures on the various 10 inch drivers
    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...d.php?t=16962&

    Information on the 4341s
    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=16493

    Tech references on the 4343s
    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=16951

    Quote Originally Posted by marijan View Post
    Hello. Sory guys, but i didn`t menage to find an ansver browsing the forum. I do not know much about this things.

    Friend of mine traded his Usher speakers for a set of new Harbert`s 5 and so called set of drivers for 4343 or 4341 monitors. Since a kind of wood work is my job, I was picked up to make him a cabinets.
    After he showed me a drivers and after my lurking around the net about JBL`s I realised that he did not get what he thought he will get. 2405 are OK, 2420 with horns also, 2231 does look as 2231 with alnico magnet assembly but on the membranes there is a 2235H sigh written with chalk (woofers were reconed). Main problem is 2121 which is not 2121 but LE10A. Can he use it in either 4343 or 4341 project or is it waste of time? He is woried that LE10A will be inferior to originals soundwise. 2121 will be hard to get as I can see...

    Thank you for any opinion or suggestions.

    Marijan
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marijan View Post
    2231 does look as 2231 with alnico magnet assembly but on the membranes there is a 2235H sigh writen with chalk (woofers where reconed). Main problem is 2121 which is not 2121 but LE10A.
    As you surmised, the 2231s are likely fine... assuming they were done properly.

    As has been pointed out, the LE10As can be reconed as 2121As (I don't believe that actually ever existed, but they should be fine.) If you do not recone the LE10As, they can work, but you would need to rework the networks. I would go for the recone.


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    Thank you for clarifications, sugestions and links.

    Very supportive forum. What a beatifull pictures of those blue front 4341`s. It makes me wish to get an old, restoration needed par of one of those JBL` and bring them to life...!

    I`m from Slovenia. Can some of the European members recommand a good jbl service workshop, for reconing that le10a`s somewhere in neighbourhod (Austria, Germany, .....).

    Few days ago, the 3141 network was sold on the ebay for 266$. Is it hard to find this stuf these days or is it likely that he`ll be forced to use a shematic and made the crossovers? If someone is offering those X-O`s send a PM please.

    Marijan

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    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
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    probably want to build the networks from scratch...




    and look up member Guido for help, i believe he is an authorized center in Germany...

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=117

  7. #7
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    The 4341 Monitor uses the same drivers as the 4343 monitor that replaced it. The 4343 has a slightly larger cabinet. If you have no cabinet anyway, you might decide to just built a 4343 cabinet. You can do a search here to find threads with dimensions and specifics for cabinet construction.

    The 4343 monitor can be upgraded to use the newer-design 3145 network from the Model 4345 - http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Net...%20Network.pdf

    If you have access to more technical folks, one of the improvements to the big 4-way JBL monitors is to build a "charge-Coupled" crossover network. If you don't have the original networks in the first place, it is a real good way to proceed. A schematic and some tips can be found at http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=16967




    Quote Originally Posted by marijan View Post
    Thank you for clarifications, sugestions and links.

    Very supportive forum. What a beautiful pictures of those blue front 4341`s. It makes me wish to get an old, restoration needed pair of one of those JBL's and bring them to life...!

    I`m from Slovenia. Can some of the European members recommend a good jbl service workshop, for reconing that le10a`s somewhere in neighbourhood (Austria, Germany, .....).

    Few days ago, the 3141 network was sold on the ebay for 266$. Is it hard to find this stuff these days or is it likely that he'll be forced to use a schematic and make the crossovers? If someone is offering those X-O`s send a PM please.

    Marijan
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  8. #8
    Senior Member Fangio's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by marijan View Post
    ..3141 networks ... Is it hard to find this stuf these days or is it likely that he`ll be forced to use a shematic and made the crossovers? If someone is offering those X-O`s send a PM please.
    Separately offered, the originals are a rare find indeed, particularly in europe.

    And yes some members do build improved versions with charge-coupled technology.

    It makes me wish to get an old, restoration needed par of one of those JBL` and bring them to life...!

    www.violineradaljac.com
    You're into building violins??

    Thats a good start, and nice background to have, for speaker DIY/restoration.

  9. #9
    RE: Member when? subwoof's Avatar
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    size matters

    The Vb ( LF ) for the 4341 and 4343 are the same. It's been posted many times that they are different BUT if you look at the measurements the 4343 was built taller ( but not as deep ) to allow for the rotatable MF/HF assembly. The volume that the 2231(H) woofer sees is the same.

    The 2121 was the alnico version - the 2121H was the ferrite. They used the *same* cone - just as the 2231A - 2231H did on the 15". Look on heathers 4341 ref thread for the picture of the baskets I sent. I also posted side by side pix of the voice coils somewhere...

    Note that the "A" designation was NOT used on the alnico raw speaker frames that were *not* included in the component section of the JBL catalogs. A minor but repeatable quirk on JBL's part. They did however use the "H" on ferrite components that were in later monitors / consumer ( IE: 108 in the 4315 and 108H in the L250 - neither were listed in catalogs )

    When the 2231H was repainted black, it got a new coil + glue and became the 2235H. They are VERY close in performance and if needed to be replaced, should be done in pairs.

    If you have a hardcore need for a 2231 cone assy I think I have a good one pulled from a basket in storage BUT with ANY LF foam surround cone, I recommend a NEW recone for correct performance....

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  10. #10
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    hahaha funny topic . I want to get my share of this type of stumble-upon-naivity too ...!
    Seriously, I'll pm you (I need veener , no crossover talk this time ) .


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    If you wana talk flamed or birds eye maple vilon makers veener readswift, you are on dangerues and expensive teritory. PM me please on my private mail , you can found on the contact page of my website please. I have a dificulty to figure out how to read a private message on the board. I can se only your name and a red green tape there. What button do I have to push.

    Hjames, thanks for the links. A friend does have a guy who would be able to make those 3141`s, but he`d like to have original pots suroundings, hi quality material in it etc. Even I made few tube amps in the past, so we shoud be able to do the job. Anyway if someone is willing to sold a pair, he is prepared to go up to the 300 EUR limit for a set.

    Subwoofer, I can not find a heaters 4341 ref thread. I`ll take few shots of those LF`s.

    I`ll contact Guido, for reconing.

    When I got my PMC IB1 monitors, I said that these are the last speakers I bought for the rest of my life. I need to hear some of these beautis of yours. It may force me tho change my mind...

    Thanks for beeing so helpfull.

    Marijan

  12. #12
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marijan View Post

    I`ll contact Guido, for reconing.

    When I got my PMC IB1 monitors, I said that these are the last speakers I bought for the rest of my life. I need to hear some of these beautis of yours. It may force me tho change my mind...

    Thanks for beeing so helpfull.

    Marijan

    Guido,

    is a one-stop-shop ! He can probably get you a schematic for the CC crossovers.

    BTW. the larger PMC pro range are a fine sounding box. The domestic range however- utter crap in a cute little jewelry box !!!!!!! even with a Bryston powering them. You will certainly notice more warmth from the JBL's . TBH, PMC are over rated IMHO. Genelec do that kind of sound better.
    PMC are Bleached of all the romance.

    Ps I have heard the IB1 S and most of the domestic range. The VOLT 10" is a very good driver from what Iv'e heard. Mind you, fillet steak is only as good as the chef !

  13. #13
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    ( IE: 108 in the 4315 and 108H in the L250 - neither were listed in catalogs )
    Just to clarify, the 4315 used the 2108 (AlNiCo) or 2108H (SFG ferrite) which was the pro version of the consumer 112A (AlNiCo) or 112H (SFG ferrite) (L212). The L250 and 250Ti used the 108H which was the consumer version of the pro 2118H.
    When the 2231H was repainted black, it got a new coil + glue and became the 2235H. They are VERY close in performance and if needed to be replaced, should be done in pairs.
    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=46738

    Mark Gander did the 136/2231 and Greg Timbers did the 2235. The 136/2231 was a severely overdamped design with very high compliance as was its 12-inch sibling the 124/2203 (extremely powerful motors, loose suspensions). These older drivers were completely dominated by the enclosures they were typically used in (reference their Vas values).

  14. #14
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    Here is a couple of JBL drivers shots my friend have. I hope this will work!

    BTW PMC IB1 is a pro range studio monitor. In my turntable based sistem, I do not feel any leek of romance.
    Attached Images Attached Images      

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    Well, the LE10A is a very smooth performer but it won't have the same impact as the 2121 or 2122. Also, that aquaplas coating on the LE10A kills efficiency (it increases bandwidth and decreases sensitivity in addition to damping spurious resonances). It may be that someone wanted to cross the 10-inch 3-way over much lower and so they used the LE10A (not necessarily a bad thing, some people like having one driver handle the entire fundamental human vocal range).

    The 2121 and 2122 recone kits are still available so you might just want to recone those LE10A's as 2121's or 2122's.

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