Best 15 inch JBL Subwoofer?

[Mr. Widget]

As an aside - we used to use the 2235H in large sixth order vented alignments way back when there wasn't a whole lot of VLF content on the media available at the time. They were "good" down to 20 Hz with the bump filter set at 20 Hz in the old 5234A. Modern media obsoletes such systems unless the power input is carefully monitored and controlled.

That is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for the thorough posts explaining where I was going with this.

If you watch an action movie at the DTS reference level of 105dB, there are plenty of films that will also cause the 2235Hs in a 5 cu ft enclosure tuned to ~30Hz to slap those mass rings silly. You can filter your signal below 30Hz, but comparing that to a Sub1500 that pressurizes the room to 20Hz and below, you are really missing something.


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[stevem]

How low will you be running your 1401Nd drivers?Widget

I'm using an 80 Hz crossover at 48 db/octave. I have the lows cut below 15 Hz at 12 db/octave. I use a BSS Omnidrive 366T for all of my crossovers, so I can (and do) use some judicious response tailoring and level matching. Power is from a Bryston 4BST (250 w/ch) amp. Would I gain anything with the SMS-!?

[Mr. Widget]

I use a BSS Omnidrive 366T for all of my crossovers...Power is from a Bryston 4BST (250 w/ch) amp. Would I gain anything with the SMS-!?

That's a nice amp. You would gain from getting a better crossover and using the SMS-1 as an EQ only, I don't like it's DSP clouding the response above the subwoofer.

If you are happy with that BSS DSP you would only gain 8 additional parametric control points and the rather excellent bass interpretation/correction that the SMS-1 offers. I can match what the SMS-1 does using CLIO and DEQX, but it isn't easy. The SMS-1 is easy and sounds really good too.

You can pick it up brand new on eBay from dealers selling it just above cost for around $500... quite a bargain, I'd say


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[Robh3606]

If you watch an action movie at the DTS reference level of 105dB, there are plenty of films that will also cause the 2235Hs in a 5 cu ft enclosure tuned to ~30Hz to slap those mass rings silly.

Hello Widget

I am not questioning the superiority of the other drivers or that they will go lower. That's a given for obvious reasons. I just don't get the slapping mass rings. With both 4344 in 5 cubic ft and now a B380 I have yet to ring the bell using 2235's. I have been able to get 121A to clank but only in a sealed box at high SPL levels.

That 105dB is a peak level that should be no sweat over the designed bandwidth for a B380. At least in a typical sized room.

Anyone else slapping around the mass rings and if so on what DVD's??

Be nice to have a list to torture test a system.

Rob

[4313B]

Anyone else slapping around the mass rings and if so on what DVD's??

Quite common and it started when CD's hit the market. It was a source of warranty repair.

With both 4344 in 5 cubic ft

Doesn't really count.

and now a B380 I have yet to ring the bell using 2235's.

Shouldn't happen very often in the B380 with the BX63 due to the bump filter.

I have been able to get 121A to clank but only in a sealed box at high SPL levels.

A 20 Hz filter should take care of that. They took a real beating when CD's first came out.

[hjames]

That 105dB is a peak level that should be no sweat over the designed bandwidth for a B380. At least in a typical sized room.

Anyone else slapping around the mass rings and if so on what DVD's??

Be nice to have a list to torture test a system.

Rob

Chase down a copy of the 2005 Ewan McGregor flick "Stay" - there is a scene in the doctor's office where he smacks a thick glass window wall and we thought for sure our picture window had cracked. I figured afterwards it HAD to be a mass ring smacking bottom (B-380 fed by bridged Citation 22)
Kind of a Vanilla Sky movie otherwise ...

[toddalin]

Hello Widget

I am not questioning the superiority of the other drivers or that they will go lower. That's a given for obvious reasons. I just don't get the slapping mass rings. With both 4344 in 5 cubic ft and now a B380 I have yet to ring the bell using 2235's. I have been able to get 121A to clank but only in a sealed box at high SPL levels.

That 105dB is a peak level that should be no sweat over the designed bandwidth for a B380. At least in a typical sized room.

Anyone else slapping around the mass rings and if so on what DVD's??

Be nice to have a list to torture test a system.

Rob

I've "slapped" the mass controlling ring on my 2235 several times when I use this speaker as a sub in parallel with my W15GTI. (Always a quick reach for the volume control!) Longer ports, or sealing one of the two ports, reduced the excursion and 2235 slapping.

I also used to bottom out the 130As when used as subs (with lots of bottom end eq).

I've never slapped anything with the W15GTI, but the architecture of the speaker probably makes this a near impossibility.

When the W15GTI starts to "overexcursion," the other voice coil comes into the opposing magnetic gap repelling the movement.

[4313B]

W15GTi

I've never slapped anything with the W15GTI, but the architecture of the speaker probably makes this a near impossibility.

Yep. It truly is the JBL 15-inch driver for the readership of this forum. Easily obtainable and easy to use. Plus it is nicely built. I can see why you are so one-note about it. The Harman website has the various documents with respect to how to use it so it is no mystery for anyone (I've posted those links numerous times and they should come up via the Search feature).

[Mr. Widget]

That 105dB is a peak level that should be no sweat over the designed bandwidth for a B380. At least in a typical sized room.

The B380 without a proper high pass filter will have difficulty with many DVDs that have content below 30Hz at a 0dB level. The problem is that once you get below the frequency that any reflex box is tuned to, the woofer is unloaded and it will flail wildly if driven hard. Room size isn't much of an issue, it is a mostly a matter of frequency at anything above a few watts.

Be nice to have a list to torture test a system.

I realize that you don't run into this sort of thing because you primarily watch those fine Merchant Ivory films , but if you pop in a Terminator film, or The newish Transformers movie, or almost any contemporary action film, there will be some sound effects that are seriously low in frequency... the mid air collision in Fight Club even caused me to turn down the pair of ported Sub1500s I was running, though the USGS picked up the impact on their seismic gear.



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[Mr. Widget]

If one doesn't have the kind of funds required to run these modern subs one can go with something like the W15GTi mentioned by toddalin above. This driver has a higher Q and shouldn't require any EQ. It will dump a ton of bass tones into a room.

True... if massive bass is the requirement that would be a solution, however for those interested in a more tuneful bass that is less "one note" sounding, I'd recommend the Sub1500/W1500H woofers. The 2245 is also quite good, though it's Xmax at sub musical frequencies can also become a factor. For music and lower powered HT applications the 2235H is also excellent.

At the other end of the spectrum from the W15GTi in the 15" JBL woofer catalog is running dual 1500ALs. A pair of these with the SMS-1 will give you about the best bass on the planet in my opinion. For some reason, you really need a pair per side to reach the pinnacle of performance, though one per side is pretty neat too... either way, you need to actively or passively EQ them if you want to plumb the depths of deep bass. While these woofers have a level of finesse that few other woofers offer, they are also remarkably robust and take immense power with grace.


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[timc]

To bad they cost a ton too. I would love to get a pair for sub use.



-Tim

[4313B]

True... if massive bass is the requirement that would be a solution

Well, it keeps coming up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over so it must be a requirement?

I'd recommend the Sub1500/W1500H woofers.

We've already done that numerous times but they are tough to get.

The 2245 is also quite good, though it's Xmax at sub musical frequencies can also become a factor. For music and lower powered HT applications the 2235H is also excellent.

Yep, I think we've posted that over a dozen times now.

1500ALs. A pair of these with the SMS-1 will give you about the best bass on the planet in my opinion. For some reason, you really need a pair per side to reach the pinnacle of performance, though one per side is pretty neat too... either way, you need to actively or passively EQ them if you want to plumb the depths of deep bass. While these woofers have a level of finesse that few other woofers offer, they are also remarkably robust and take immense power with grace.

Yep, the 1500AL actually responds surprisingly well to sub duty. It is available from Japan. Some may prefer the 1501AL with the higher impedance voice coils to run in pairs. They were designed to run in pairs. Other possibilities would be the 1500FE and the ME150H.

[Mr. Widget]

Well, it keeps coming up....

We've already done that numerous times...

Yep, I think we've posted that over a dozen times now...

That's the problem with having an older forum... so many of these topics will be gone over and over again.

BTW: What is the polarity of a pair of L100s and can I use a 16 ohm 2405 with an 8 ohm....


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[hjames]

Maybe we need a sticky post for obtaining Massive Bassive?

[Mr. Widget]

Maybe we need a sticky post for obtaining Massive Bassive?

I'd rather see us promote quality.


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