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Thread: Yamaha P2200 v/s Perreaux 6200B for 4344's LF

  1. #1
    Senior Member jarrods's Avatar
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    Yamaha P2200 v/s Perreaux 6200B for 4344's LF

    Hi,

    I am building some 4344's that will be run bi-amped. I already have an amp for the tops. Local secondhand dealers have both Yamaha P2200 and Perreaux 6200B for sale. Anyone have thoughts on what is best to drive the 2235H's?

    http://www.perreaux.com/files/051-6200B.pdf

    i spoke to the 'amp expert' guy at one store and he said if i want a super reliable amp that you take on the road definitely use the yammy, if you are looking for pure sound quality use the 6200. apparently they have very little circuity in them for speaker monitoring/protection, so the signal remains cleaner.

    Also; you think neither amp is any good please let me know.

    thanks,
    Jarrod

  2. #2
    Senior Member GordonW's Avatar
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    Well, my take is that the Perreaux probably has quite a bit stouter power supply. For the specific application, I'd expect a little better "defined" bass from the 6200, for that reason.

    I'd see nothing in particular, wrong with the idea of using a Perreaux for bass; they should be well-equipped and suitable for such!

    OK... so, why do I now feel this feeling of deja vu, like I've been involved in this EXACT discussion before, and it's about to turn into a great big argument??

    Regards,
    Gordon.

  3. #3
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    6200B looks a lot like a pro version of the
    PMF2150B I used to have, and was quite
    happy with...especially driving dynamic
    speakers (such as your LF section). Worth
    having the idle current set/checked if it's the
    same or similar circuit design as the 2150B
    (can run hot if set too high). No direct experience
    with the Yamaha pro amp...
    Past experience w/ Perreaux, service-wise, was
    good...should be better for you (a bit closer).

    Cheers,

    -grumpy

  4. #4
    PSS AUDIO
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    Re: Yamaha P2200 v/s Perreaux 6200B for 4344's LF

    Originally posted by jarrods
    Hi,

    I am building some 4344's that will be run bi-amped. I already have an amp for the tops. Local secondhand dealers have both Yamaha P2200 and Perreaux 6200B for sale. Anyone have thoughts on what is best to drive the 2235H's?
    Hi Jarrod,

    Not willing making any add for PSS, just ask NET in Sydney to lend you a PSS2400! It is perhaps a little too powerful (2x700W under 8 ohms) but this amplifier is very punchy and has an excellent bottom note.

    Read selected words held by famous audio technicians in international magazines:

    “The common mode rejection ratio here has a value that is only rarely seen, even on amps with good reputations.

    The frequency response curves show perfect linearity, especially in the bass, where not even the slightest filtering can be detected. The cut-off frequency of the inputs is turned very low.”


    Frequency Response at 10 Watts, - 1dB : 2 Hz - 100 000 Hz
    Frequency Response at half power, 0 dB : 10 Hz - 25 000 Hz _
    Frequency Response at full power, 0 dB : 15 Hz - 20 000 Hz _
    SNR unweighted/weighted. : 105 dB/108 dB
    Gain at 1 kHz - 8 ohms rated output. : 31dB
    Input impedance bal./unbal. 20 kohms/20 kohms
    Common mode rejection ratio 40Hz/ 1 kHz/ 10 kHz : 84 dB/84 dB/78 dB
    Rise Time. :5 µs
    Damping factor 8ohms. : > 250
    Distortion 1000 Hz/8ohms. : 0,009%
    IM distortion (SMPTE) 10 kHz/4ohms : 0,026%

  5. #5
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    Either the above will do nicely,

    Its a matter of taste, best no fans for domestic listening.

    Knowing your top end amp stick with the mosfets and go for the 6000B, lots of control and able to dump pently of current if needed. WOW I am sure it will sound great....and so will the F' ing neighbours

    Amps are a matter of taste and can be a means of endlesss debate like religion.....I recall doing a shootout with my earlier 4 way JBL with the MAC ......we had the Phase Linear 400 & 700, the Quad 405, a local Kit the Pro Series 3 and a EL 34 valve amp.

    I myself am a class A nut but thats another story...LOL

    The Pro Series 3 was the most open and the best of the bunch It was a bit tizzy in the top end as is the trait of most mosfet amps however they have a degree of warmth which will be useful with the 4344 which will be ruthlessly revealing of your recordings.

    My bother uses the Pro Series 3 on his 4343 for mids and top end...very nice indeed..a proven kit amp time and time again.

    Ian

    Edit...Actually I would prefer Jarrod if you can down size your amps as I may well be the first to complain being not that far from ground ZERO.

    If not I'd have to bridge two 700B's on the bottom end to make myself heard and seriously SLAM your ass with the 2245's....Muhahahaha

    Forgive my humour
    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 03-18-2004 at 04:35 AM.

  6. #6
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    Hi Guys

    New here, just found the web site,

    I have been an avid fan of JBL pro transducers for years, started out with Altec, that is what got me hooked.

    Interesting thread, as the other guys say, when talking about top notch high power amps it does come down to personal taste. There is a following out there that believes and prefers the, now superceeded by switch mode, heavy weight conventional amps sound better for bass duty. I think that there maybe a lot of markeyying effort in pushing the switch mode design, interesting to note that the current top manufacturers, Lab Gruppen and Crown, still produce a range of heavy weight amps.

    Personaly I have experience with Peraux, Crown Macrotech and Australian Monitor. The AM range, now no longer in production since Audio Telex bought them out, includes the older genuine Ausi made range that includes K88, K1.3m AM1600, AM2400, AM 2200 and Am3002. The Peraux is bright, fast and punchy but lacks the bass muscle of the Crown and larger AM's. That is my experience and what my ears tell me. If my memory serves me correct, the Peraux 6200B is a heavy weight conventional power supply mosfet amp, it will certainly do admirable service whatever you put it to work on.

    I run 2242H VGC sub bass grivers crossed over to 2206H low mids, 2380A mid high and 2404H in pair stack for eficency matching. Xovers frequencies at 80, 750 and 6.5K. Power is by Ausi Monitors comprising of 2 by AM2400 and 1 by AM1200, all quad channel. The 2400's run in bridge mode giving 1600 per channel + 800 per channel into 8 ohms. The AM's are rated to +1.5 dB contious so you can add practically 50% on that figure. The Quad 1200 runs the horns. I use a Rane DSP cross-over. Granted, I do not use even a 10th of the 6000 watts I have, it is the headroom that really shines.

    Bottom line is this, there is no substitute for clean powerful amplification. Whatever amp you use you should be looking for a high slew rate, high damping factor and abillity to push 2 ohms without melt down occurring. Advertised frquency response and sig to noise mean little if the amp cannot cope with the load or what you want to get out of it.

    I have compared the same driver with amplification capacities starting from 200 all the way up to 2200 RMS and can state that in my listening experience, given the same quallity of amplifier product, more power makes a dramatic difference. The guide to selecting the correct size of amp for bass work is to choose one that is 1.5 to 2.5 X the continuous powr rating of the transducer. (JBL Pro recommendation) I agree with this and believe that anyone that has done the same tests as I have will also confirm this to be valid.

    If you want a siesmic experience like nothing you have heard before in your listening room, try auditioning a Crown Macrotech MAZ 3000 or the equivelent from Lab Gruppen. Personally I prefer to run completely seperate L and R amplification which is what I can do with the set-up I have. This eliminates cross-talk and enhances the stereo effect, go one step further and use seperate main power circuits. Big amps really draw from the mains and do cause volt drop in the cabling.

    I hope my experience can be of some usefull help to the guys on this forum. As I have said, this has been my experience, but then my ears are unique to me!

  7. #7
    Senior Member jblbgw_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPW View Post
    Hi Guys

    Personaly I have experience with Peraux, Crown Macrotech and Australian Monitor. The AM range, now no longer in production since Audio Telex bought them out, includes the older genuine Ausi made range that includes K88, K1.3m AM1600, AM2400, AM 2200 and Am3002. The Peraux is bright, fast and punchy but lacks the bass muscle of the Crown and larger AM's. That is my experience and what my ears tell me. If my memory serves me correct, the Peraux 6200B is a heavy weight conventional power supply mosfet amp, it will certainly do admirable service whatever you put it to work on.

    I use BGW 750D's rated at 275W RMS into 8 ohms on my 4435's and have also used the AM 1K2 at 400W RMS into 8 ohms on them as well. The lower power rated BGW provides unquestionably more dynamic LF punch than the AM 1K2 ever could, the AM 1K2 (same topology as all the AM range) now lives in it's cardboard box in my shed. I also presumed having the larger headroom with the AM 1K2 would be benificial but this was proven to be not the case ...... my 2 cents.
    4435, 4430, 4315, 4312B.
    2 x Bryston 4BSST2, BGW 203, JBL 5235, Aphex 720.

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    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblbgw_man View Post
    I use BGW 750D's rated at 275W RMS into 8 ohms on my 4435's and have also used the AM 1K2 at 400W RMS into 8 ohms on them as well. The lower power rated BGW provides unquestionably more dynamic LF punch than the AM 1K2 ever could, the AM 1K2 (same topology as all the AM range) now lives in it's cardboard box in my shed. I also presumed having the larger headroom with the AM 1K2 would be benificial but this was proven to be not the case ...... my 2 cents.
    Hi...I know you know this , but here are the factory specs on a 750D

    http://www.cinemaequipmentsales.com/bgw750gp2.html

    In the realm of professional amplification, however, one thing has been a constant for over two decades - the BGW 750 embodies the working definition of perfect power. It was true when the original 750 shook up the film industry with the revolutionary Sensurround systems used for the motion picture Earthquake . It was true many years ago, when 750Bs and 750Cs were putting a million watts of non-stop power behind the disco boom. It was true in 1985, when the 750D and 750E combined "audiophile" design concepts like low feedback, high damping factor and slew rate with professional ruggedness, safety and reliability.

    and YES, I too think JBL & BGW sound great together (750D ,203 and 250Ti here)

    Have read that the Perreaux was based on BGW design ...also some of the ATI amps (who bought BGW)
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    I used to run a few large systems, of which two were set up with
    1) 16x Yamaha 2200's, and the other
    2) 16x Perreaux 8000's.

    It was chalk and cheese.
    The 8000's really did kill the 2200's, BUT that doesn't mean the 2200's were bad.
    The Perreaux's were just a tad too clean and too revealing the more you pushed.
    That made them just a tad more harder to work with, as most bands were just not up to the standard although it suited DJ's perfectly.
    The 2200's were more of an all rounder and sounded much better at lower SPL's.
    I must add, that I never had a problem with any 8000's going down, but I did have 1x 2200 blow in 2 years, so I'd say both are as reliable as each other.

    Now that I'm old and starting to shrivel up and turning into a prune, I've retired and now have to make do with a bunch of old Phase Linears and Crowns for home use.
    One of my home stereos has a couple of bridged 700 II's for the lows, (dual 2215/4530's per side) and another 700 II and a couple of 400 II's for the rest and it sounds quite pleasant.
    For my 'baby' system, I just use a Crown D150 for a pair 4311's, and it's just right for late night listening.

    I'm not 100% sure now, but I think I remember that the PL700's had probably the best slew and damping rates of all for a very long time, and still can hold there head high to this day, BUT they have to be checked and serviced regularly, and don't like sitting about not doing anything for long periods as they did have a high failure rate with devastating horrific effects, IF not cared for on a regular basis.

    So you can look at any high power amps, as long as they measure up to spec and have been well cared for and serviced professionally.

    My 2 shillings worth.
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

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    FWIW, I'm getting great results with MC2 MC1250 on bass duties http://www.mc2-audio.co.uk/mc1250/
    Used by Turbosound, Funktion1, Quested, Dynaudio, Tannoy,both as main monitor amps and on pa sub duties.
    They have Klark Teknik heritage (designed by Terry Clarke )They do have fan cooling but have a clarity, bass grip/drive and power thats hard to beat.
    To these ears, I chose over Crest Audio, Chord 1200, Naim NAP 250, Meridian 559's and Bryston 4ST, they were clear winners.
    Cooky

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    Quote Originally Posted by jblbgw_man View Post
    I use BGW 750D's
    when I was searching for my 750D (thanx to Loach71 for bird dogging it) ....many times you will find them with stickers similar to this one.....were many many times used in recording studios
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