The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio World ?

[gedlee]

This article (4 pages) I found on the internet. What do you think of it

True or Not True.

You can read it, and if you have an opinion, please let us know.

pag.1 http://ip565bfb2a.direct-adsl.nl/art.../10-Lies-1.jpg
pag.2 http://ip565bfb2a.direct-adsl.nl/art.../10-Lies-2.jpg
pag.3 http://ip565bfb2a.direct-adsl.nl/art.../10-Lies-3.jpg
pag.4 http://ip565bfb2a.direct-adsl.nl/art.../10-Lies-4.jpg

There are some points that I have issue with. The points about tubes and feedback. Now I am not a tube advocate nor a zero feedback advocate, but there are reasons for both those points of view. Tube amps, because of there design, tend to have very low feedback and very low crossover distortion. Crossover distortion is the single most audible form of distortion and it can be endemic in solid state designs. Feedback can acentuate the crossover problem. So a poorly designed tube amp could well sound better than a poorly designed solid state one. If they are both well designed then audibility isn't an issue and they would both sound the same. A novice has almost no chance of getting a solid state amp right, but almost anybody can design and build a decent sounding tube amp.

So the blanket "lie" claim in those papers is not as clear cut as it might seem. The bottom line is that a good amp design is a good amp design, but its far from true that all amps are designed properly.

[just4kinks]

He is more or less right about everything, but he exaggerates some of his points and it comes over a little obnoxious. I doubt that this article will be very convincing to the "golden ears".

On this topic, I prefer Douglas Self's writing on on "Science and Subjectivism in Audio":
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampin...o/subjectv.htm

[ALTEC9846-8A]

I agree with this article 100%. It's too bad people on other audio forums don't agree with me but some people can't change

[Allanvh5150]

I have built tube amps for most of my life and I am not sure where this guy is coming from. At volume I could teach a baby to tell the difference between tube and solid state. Under normal operation a tube will out perform a transistor in most ways. In fact the table is currently turning back to tube. A few people are developing ways to put triode tubes onto integrated circuits. Last time I checked they had 1000 tubes on a chip. they are easier to make as you dont need any silicon. As for his negative feedback arguement, when negative feedback is applied it is out of phase with the original signal. The signal has to go through the amp before the feedback is generated, so the feedback goes onto some other part of the waveform. It is pretty easy to design zero negative feedback into a tube amp and they sound way better for it. Also from a "purity" point of view, there are far less components in the audio path than in most solid state gear. And point of fact is that there are more amplifiers made with tubes now than there were in the fifties and sixties. Everyone said "wow, lets make solid state amps". And now we are back to tube with a vengence. I cant think why, apart from the fact that the bulk of solid state amps sound like bum.

[Ian Mackenzie]

A novice has almost no chance of getting a solid state amp right, but almost anybody can design and build a decent sounding tube amp.

The bottom line is that a good amp design is a good amp design, but its far from true that all amps are designed properly.

I agree in principle.

But historically the fact is there are/were a lot of practical limitations in circuit design. For example some so called Tube amps that people thought were good such as some old Leak and Quad amps are really are rubbish compared to a contemporary desigsn using modern approaches like Conrad Johnson, the BAT and Cary.

On the novice scense it is no easier. I would say the tube guys are a long way behind in terms of consistency of results compared to the minimalist two stage solid state designs using Jfets and mosfets by Nelson Pass and Erno Borbley.

Therefore the premise anyone can build a decsent tube amp in real practical terms is no where nearer the truth than it is solid state. There are of course commercial good solid state examples like Boulder, Pass Labs and Ayre ans tube example as mentioned above.

Of course if depends on what you mean by descent.

[gedlee]

Therefore the premise anyone can build a decsent tube amp in real practical terms is no where nearer the truth than it is solid state.

Of course if depends on what you mean by descent.

There were two hedge words in my statement "almost anybody" and "descent". But I still would claim that a tube amp is easier to design than a solid state one. I saw a guy design and build a tube amp who had almost no knowledge of electronics and it was sold in the marketplace. To properly bias a solid state amp is not a simple calculation, although with SPICE you could just cut and try until something worked out I suppose.

[4313B]

And now we are back to tube with a vengence.

Who is "we"?

Is Bose coming out with a tube Wave!? Are there tube iPods on the horizon!?

[Mr. Widget]

He is more or less right about everything...

I agree with this article 100%.

There is no doubt that there is quite a lot of audio quackery out there, however there is a lot of room between Julian Hirsch's old stance of "all properly working amps sound the same" and where the cable swapping mpingo disc set lives.

If all you ever heard was midfi you can't really pass judgement on this stuff... sure, we as men pass laws on women's rights, or we as the "first world" decide what is best for our less fortunate neighbors, but if you want to make a valid value judgement of $10K amps, $2K speaker cables and the like you should spend some time with the believers.

FWIW: I have never bought an expensive cable or grossly expensive piece of audio gear in my life, partly due to my economic situation, but also I have never been convinced of their value. That said, the author of "Ten Biggest Lies" has made a few accurate observations and stated a hell of a lot of uninformed opinions. There is more to this stuff than simply a group of charlatans fleecing a bunch of sheep.


Widget

[grumpy]

There is more to this stuff than simply a group of charlatans fleecing a bunch of sheep.

Indeed... but the fleecing charlatans are certainly in the mix as well.

Aczel is good at exciting folks by making absolute statements with elements of truth.
Sometimes his writing is entertaining, sometimes, not so much. I don't find it valuable.

-grumpy

[4313B]

There is more to this stuff than simply a group of charlatans fleecing a bunch of sheep.

Not much more though.

It's actually pretty silly if you sit down and think about it.

[Robh3606]

Well the real kicker is this is a subjective hobby. These is no absolutely right way to do it. Anyway we do it with current technology pales in comparison to the real thing. The whole damn things a lie.

I love it anyway though.

Rob

[AdamimAdam]

[Ian Mackenzie]

Who is "we"?

Is Bose coming out with a tube Wave!? Are there tube iPods on the horizon!?

Actually there are..by Fatso ( a brand) as I recall.

[Ian Mackenzie]

There were two hedge words in my statement "almost anybody" and "descent". But I still would claim that a tube amp is easier to design than a solid state one. I saw a guy design and build a tube amp who had almost no knowledge of electronics and it was sold in the marketplace. To properly bias a solid state amp is not a simple calculation, although with SPICE you could just cut and try until something worked out I suppose.

Hey Earl,

Well I guess a splash 2nd harmonic distorton from a nice little SE tube amp is quite saleable.

On the subject of how simple or difficult it is to enter this market have you had a reply from Audio Express or the author in the next issue. That and the F5 should interesting reading.


Ian

[gedlee]

Yes, They are going to publish the letter and the author did contact me.

He admitted to misunderstanding a lot of my work and the errors, so it may all come out fine in the end.

The interesteing note from from Ed Dell - the editor. He commented that he had published dozens of papers on horns in his mags, but never knew what I had said in my letter.