why big woofers?

[Gary L]

I have friends who really think their Bose wave radios sound just as good as my Altec 19s!

They too need their heads examined!

Music for me has to both sound and feel good!

Gary

[Allanvh5150]

I find large woofers are more appealing visualy. I have built my whole system in New Zealand native timber to match the rest of the furniture in my house. The large cabinets, 4 x L150, 1 x 4355 style and 2 x L86 where made to be "peices of furniture". I dont run my system at horendous levels but if I do, the clarity is phenominal. Of course the major drawback with large speakers is that you need and over abundence of power to keep it clean. My amplifiers consist of 7 x 150W, 2 x 200W, 2 x 500W and 2 x 1000W. Most people will call this insanity, I just look at them and smile and say "its just a hobby". So are my speakers too big for home use? YUP. Are my amplifiers too big for home use? YOU BETCHA. But who cares..... You will find that most of the members of this site own or want to own, either the top end home use JBL's, or, large format studio monitors. We like em because they sound great and they also have a lot of the "holy crap" factor. And, what I think is the most important factor, we generaly dont follow current trends.

[edgewound]

So are my speakers too big for home use? YUP. Are my amplifiers too big for home use? YOU BETCHA.

Says who?

It's your house and your system. Until the "Speaker Gestapo" shows up to confiscate them, and you're not bothering your neighbors, that's right....

Who cares?

[Gary L]

"So are my speakers too big for home use? YUP. Are my amplifiers too big for home use? YOU BETCHA".

You forgot to ask the next question in this progression, Do I love the way my system sounds????????

My wife already knows there needs to be room for my speakers and system or I am a very unhappy camper!

Gary

[Mr. Widget]

Check out the Revel line by Harman. Woofers are multiple 8"s or smaller.

The Revel F52 only has (3) 6.5" woofers yet I'd rather listen to them than a pair of L300s. It has tight articualate bass down to a -10dB point of 21Hz! The rated (in room) frequency response is +/- 0.5dB 33Hz to 18KHz. (Yeah, I know... which room!) However I have heard these wee beasties and their smaller brothers in many rooms and they just sound great. They do require a big amp (at least 150wpc) but they are dynamic, image holographically, and are virtually coloration free.

My biggest gripe with them is that Harman didn't have the balls to badge them as JBLs and dump all of those cheesy vinyl clad boxes that do have the JBL name on them.


Widget

[cooky1257]

Actually....

In a well designed system, multiple small woofers are quicker, more accurate and can handle more power than say, a single 15". Why? Because they can start and stop faster, and the multiple motors/voice coils can handle more power with less power compression. Given high quality drivers of course. Four 8" woofers have roughly 15% more cone area than a single 15", excluding the the motor topology and voice coil excursion

But accuracy and the visceral "ooomph" that many listeners prefer are many times mutually exclusive. That's where the 15" or 18" can win the game.

Is the mic'd kick drum at a monster concert an accurate reproduction of the kick drum by itself acoustically?....I think not. It's a major synthesizer that's tuned by the house engineer based on the system he has at his fingertips.

Check out the Revel line by Harman. Woofers are multiple 8"s or smaller.

That's actually only 5% larger assuming we're talking flat circles, but wont 8" cones be more shallow, have smaller dia voicecoils/lower thermal power handling? Therefore power compression will set in earlier for a given LF output? To say nothing of rising distortion with excursion.
Either way you get there you still need cone realestate regardless of level IMO.

[edgewound]

My biggest gripe with them is that Harman didn't have the balls to badge them as JBLs and dump all of those cheesy vinyl clad boxes that do have the JBL name on them.


Widget

That is a statement that I wholeheartedly endorse, also.

Check out the JBL "LS Series" in Japan. Makes you scratch your head and ask why not here? Some JBL insiders wonder the same thing.

[edgewound]

That's actually only 5% larger assuming we're talking flat circles, but wont 8" cones be more shallow, have smaller dia voicecoils/lower thermal power handling? Therefore power compression will set in earlier for a given LF output? To say nothing of rising distortion with excursion.
Either way you get there you still need cone realestate regardless of level IMO.

Well, I did qualify that by stating "high qualility" drivers. There are some mighty killer 8's on the market with 3" voice coils that can go to 20-30Hz and take several hundred watts to kilowatt peaks.

I'd love to hear what multliple JBL 218F's could do in an verticle line array with a small enclosure footprint.

[greyhound]

i always wondered why a few drivers that together have the exact same surface area as one biggie would do any worse.
fact is when i listen to bass drums and electricbasses the sound comes more natural with a big diameter woofer. problem is i dont understand why!
is it just in my head?
whats important for a woofer is the control the voice coil has on the cone.
the bigger the coil the more control its got on the driver right?
jbl uses big voice coils but when you compare them with the small drivers and do the math, the small ones should have more control.
large coils means that the amount of windings from the wire's are smaller. because the circel is bigger. so that means that the gap of the voice coil is smaller.

also when you hear a bass drum a lot of info is comming from the (how you call them) squakers ? ore midrangers,waffers?
and also the tweeters.

[Gary L]

I think a smaller dia. cone has a better chance of being faster and more accurate then a larger woofer.

Don't know the math but I'd say 2 10s should be able to outperform 1 15.

Coupeling the sound and matching the woffers would be very important if my thoughts are correct.

I always questioned Bose and the 901 series speakers because I think it is possible to get 2 or three speakers performing close enough in spec to sound great together but I had my doubts about 9 of them doing it.

I do appreciate the bass response from old Altecs that contain 2 12s over those that have 1 15 in them.

Gary

[Mr. Widget]

i always wondered why a few drivers that together have the exact same surface area as one biggie would do any worse.

...I think it is possible to get 2 or three speakers performing close enough in spec to sound great together but I had my doubts about 9 of them doing it.

The problem isn't that the drivers are closely matched or not. The problems arise when you get above a few hundred Hz. As the frequencies get higher you get cancellations and lobing due to the comb filtering that occurs due to the shorter wavelengths having different arrival times. For lower frequencies the wavelengths are so long that they blend seamlessly and you can use two 12s or 10s or three 8s and so on. This is why the Revel pictured above must have a mid that can go down fairly low to the crossover between it and the three woofers.

As for control, as Edge said, with "high quality" drivers you can get exceptional control out of smaller drivers. For them to do deep bass justice they still must have respectable xmax and a low enough Fs etc. The main thing you do lose is sensitivity. None of these multi-driver systems can match a 15" or 18" system for sensitivity.


Widget

[CONVERGENCE]

It has to do with cabinet size, I've tried column PA speakers and they don't come near anything a 15 " woofer in a large cab will give you in terms of performance.

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[Gary L]

It has to do with cabinet size, I've tried column PA speakers and they don't come near anything a 15 " woofer in a large cab will give you in terms of performance.

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My own personal tastes agree with this Convergence but I think an Altec 9844 with 2, 12" 414s has alot nicer bass then other Altecs with a single 15" 416.

I have a fond appreciation for large woofers that can excite alot of air in a room and I've just never felt that with any multiple woofed towers.

Gary

[Mr. Widget]

It has to do with cabinet size, I've tried column PA speakers and they don't come near anything a 15 " woofer in a large cab will give you in terms of performance.

I believe we were discussing home audio. For pro-audio the requirements are quite different.

Speaking of columns of smaller drivers remember the Shure Vocal Master speakers? This JBL was better, but hell yeah, give me some big ass woofers any day... as long as someone else is doing the hauling.



Widget

[Maron Horonzakz]

Just got my latest issue of Voice Coil Mag. In it is a Ad from TB speakers... Touting a 2" SUBWOOFER speaker... Yeh right !!!