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Thread: Altec 414Z Surround Ooze

  1. #16
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    The published Fs of 414-8C and -8E are 30.2 and 30.3, respectively. Assuming 414A was the same (see link below,) and a random sampling of them measures 10 Hz higher, what does that tell us?

    1) The suspension is now stiffer due to age,

    2) They're not performing to original spec, and,

    3) "That Altec Sound" isn't what it used to be.

    Do we have reason to expect that goop hardens and spiders stiffen after 40 years?

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/a...1&d=1204428597

  2. #17
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Do we have reason to expect that goop hardens and spiders stiffen after 40 years?

    That's a good enough reason to reactivate/reflow the goop with MEK or acetone to loosen it up because it gets thicker after decades exposed to the air.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  3. #18
    Senior Member jblwolf's Avatar
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    where to buy "goop"

    Greetings all,I have also used a hairdryer to get the goop to reflow,verylow heat worked on a pair of 605's .I was wondering if any members have this "goop" that I could buy?,I have a pair of d123's that the goop has dryed out.I tryed to get the goop to reflow but theres not enough of it left to reflow.

  4. #19
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    1) I don't know where to buy "goop", or for that matter what it actually is.
    There are comments about airflex and waldom #aa75, but it's not clear to
    me that this is correct for cloth (vs. paper) surrounds or that either are
    currently available.

    2) Given 3 samples of 414z, I'll hazard a guess that 414c's were a redesign
    to give similar performance in a smaller (~5/8) box with a small loss of
    efficiency (and 2x power handling). Then again, my measurements could be
    crap ... and I don't have a 414c to compare.

    3) Once I reduce/reactivate the goop on the units I have and run them in a bit,
    I'll retest for changes.

    -grumpy

  5. #20
    Senior Member Steve Schell's Avatar
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    Mr. Bill Hayes, formerly of Altec, told me that the goop was a product of a company called Moyen. I don't know if Moyen is still around or if they still make goop.

  6. #21
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Thanks Steve, they seem to still exist:

    http://www.cpmoyen.com/

    ... as to whether they still make it ... :dont-know
    or would bother with small quantities if they did.

    Worth a phone call if someone is in need of it.

  7. #22
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    The published Fs of 414-8C and -8E are 30.2 and 30.3, respectively. Assuming 414A was the same (see link below,) and a random sampling of them measures 10 Hz higher, what does that tell us?

    1) The suspension is now stiffer due to age,

    2) They're not performing to original spec, and,

    3) "That Altec Sound" isn't what it used to be.

    Do we have reason to expect that goop hardens and spiders stiffen after 40 years?

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/a...1&d=1204428597
    I measured the FS of the pair I have. The one pictured at the beginning of this thread with the big mass of goop on the surround measured 35hz. The other 414Z which seems to be it's original mate, has far less goop on it and almost no puddle of ooze. It measured 32Hz.

    I had been on the fence as to what to do with these woofers, but after taking an initial frequency response curve that showed quite a promising possibility for them I am going to fix these and give them a whirl.


    Widget

  8. #23
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    The other 414Z which seems to be it's original mate, has far less goop on it and almost no puddle of ooze. It measured 32Hz.
    Nice ... motivation for me to bother un-over-gooping the units I have.
    (still looking for one more, possibly two, if anyone has a lead -besides- Ebay...)

    -grumpy

  9. #24
    Senior Member UreiCollector's Avatar
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    I used a knife that i heated repeatedly with a flame....not too hot, just hot enough to melt the goo. did the trick, and only melted the goo where the knife touched.


    by the way, does anyone know what that goo is? I would like to get my hands on some for a project.
    Frederick "The Urei Collector"

  10. #25
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    There's a thread about it somewhere, if I remember right.

    It is some sticky stuff. Main thing to make sure of is not letting direct sunlight on the woofers or the goo will start to melt and run.

    If I have the window open, I have the grilles on, if the window is closed -- off come those grilles!


  11. #26
    Member AltecLansingFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovethatsound View Post
    There's a thread about it somewhere, if I remember right.

    It is some sticky stuff. Main thing to make sure of is not letting direct sunlight on the woofers or the goo will start to melt and run.

    If I have the window open, I have the grilles on, if the window is closed -- off come those grilles!

    I think the temperature is too hot, you better can move to Alaska!

  12. #27
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    2 414z 12's

    i got a set i was thinking about parting with.here is a link to pics i put on forum http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hlight=carmels. they work fine. i am going to keep the horns in the cabs. as u can see the set i got has a D130 in 1 cab and 2 414z in the other. why they did this i dont know. the only reason im selling is i need funds for jbl 2225h 15's and amps. and they take up alot of room.
    from what i can gather they are rated at 35 watts. but im not sure about that. they do sound great. so Grumpy if u want a set with no goop runs let me know. the cabs are in bad shape. i saw a pair on the bay go for $291 + 30 s/h that looked as good as mine. the D130 is in great shape also.

  13. #28
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Thanks Bbob. I'll keep those in mind... that was quite a save from the incinerator!

    -grumpy

  14. #29
    Senior Member JoMoCo's Avatar
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    Altec 414Z Specs

    Grumpy, what would you estimate the approx sensitivity 1w/1m to be...

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    FWIW, I ran two over-gooped (from what I've seen) 414z's through WT-2
    and it seems I should indeed un-goop them and remeasure (significant
    differences are shown):

    Re: 11.5 ohms
    Fs: 40, 49.2, 45 Hz
    Qes: .29, .36, ...
    Qms: 3.51, 2.46, 1.0
    Qts: .267, .316, .3
    Le: 2.3 mH
    Vas: 210, 130, 150 l (delta mass method)
    BL: 20, 20, 19.5
    Mms: 41g

    I've added info for a third unit.

    -grumpy

  15. #30
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovethatsound View Post
    There's a thread about it somewhere, if I remember right.
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?t=26654

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