Bi-Amp with T-Amp Top?

[Skywave-Rider]

After reading posts from T-Amp users, I wonder, is there any consensus on these now that the dust has settled?

I'm about to bi-amp a system (not my Altec 9844s,) and wonder if you think any of the T-Amps, Super-T or Gen II T, would drive the top very well. In that system, the driver will be a BMS 4552ND. It's not going to be used in a high amplitude application, but it does have to be clean and accurate. The bottom will be powered by a Crown PS200.


I have other amp options, including a second PS200, but that's tied up with my Altecs in another location. Should I bite the bullet and carry that thing back and forth?

Can cheap be good?

[Steve71]

After reading posts from T-Amp users, I wonder, is there any consensus on these now that the dust has settled?

I'm about to bi-amp a system (not my Altec 9844s,) and wonder if you think any of the T-Amps, Super-T or Gen II T, would drive the top very well. In that system, the driver will be a BMS 4552ND. It's not going to be used in a high amplitude application, but it does have to be clean and accurate. The bottom will be powered by a Crown PS200.


I have other amp options, including a second PS200, but that's tied up with my Altecs in another location. Should I bite the bullet and carry that thing back and forth?

Can cheap be good?

I'm using a Trend's Audio TA-10.1 (same chip as the t-amp) to power Altec 288 K compression drivers on MR-64 horns from 500hz on up. Prior to that I was using a crown XLS 402D. The top end is a little soft on the Altec's, but what is there is good with the T-amp. It's got a little more detail and less distortion than the crown.

[clmrt]

It's worth the $50 to find out for yourself. I wound up giving mine to an audio-starved buddy.

Never tried bi-amping with it. Used it with Altec 3000H / 414's in the Seville and it was really good kit for low-level playback.

[Woofer]

I Bi-amp using a pair of T-Amps that I built, for my 'baby' stereo, and to be quite honest, it's what I use nearly ALL of the time now. (volume is not my first priority, so they do the business quite nicely as far as quality is concerned, plus, they do go quite loud, given the chance, and efficient speakers.)
I've got a pair of 4301's which I use one of the T-amps on, and an an old pair of L40's as Subs which I use the other one on, and a very old DBX Boom Box which has the bonus of being a X-over too at around 250Hz.
I must say, at low volumes, it compares very favourably against some very pricey alternatives, and gives my 'BIG' stereo (Quad-amped Phase Linear/JBL bins, mids and horns and slots etc etc) a run for the money.

[Skywave-Rider]

I'm using a Trend's Audio TA-10.1 (same chip as the t-amp) to power Altec 288 K compression drivers on MR-64 horns from 500hz on up. Prior to that I was using a crown XLS 402D. The top end is a little soft on the Altec's, but what is there is good with the T-amp. It's got a little more detail and less distortion than the crown.

Is that comparo to the Gen II T (the $50.00 unit) or the 3x the price Super T?

I'm pretty impressed by your responses.
I could gamble $50 to hear what happens. I have a good regulated 12v supply already.

[Steve71]

Is that comparo to the Gen II T (the $50.00 unit) or the 3x the price Super T?

I'm pretty impressed by your responses.
I could gamble $50 to hear what happens. I have a good regulated 12v supply already.

It's billed as an audiophile version of the SI and cost about $150. 6moons did a nice review on it.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/trends/ta10.html

I found a used one for sale locally for not much more than an sonic impact + power supply, so for me it was a no brainier.... If you've already got a PS, $150 is a bit steep compared to a gen I sonic impact.

As far as volume is concerned it shouldn't be a problem for home use with that BMS driver which is 115db/w/m (same as my Altec)... the T-amps are really only 5 watts into 8ohms.

[Skywave-Rider]

It's billed as an audiophile version of the SI and cost about $150. 6moons did a nice review on it.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/trends/ta10.html

Thanks for the tip, just read it. Looks pretty great!

[scorpio]

I'm running a 3-ways with active filtering between bass and mid-high. The mid-high combo (JBL 2450 + 2405, simple 1st order filter in between) I have been using with a Trends TA-10 for about a year now, this replaced a 10* more expensive 2A3 SET. Musically (and practically) speaking, it sounds just as good to me. Only drawbacks are a higher noise floor, which can be annoying at night on very soft pieces, and the power-on transient which goes straight to the drivers, I can't manage to fully get rid of it, even playing with the bias. Advantage is that it does not need 20 mins to fully warm up and come on balance, good when you just have time for a very short listening session!

I plan to get back to the SET one of these days, after this long break, it will be the ultimate test! I tried the TA-10 because my SET has a nasty ground loop that I can only eliminate by inserting a decoupling transfo in one of the cables from the preamp, if I use a transfo in each cable, the situation gets worse, even if it's theoretical, I don't like using different cable types for each channel.

For me, it was a very well spend 100 euros, if I don't use it in this system anymore, it will find a use in a secondary one, or to power my Audio-technica earspekers.

[pos]

I have tried the original Sonic Impact T-amp in a 3 way active setup, on a 2416H and le85, and have faced several problems:
- some hiss can be heard with such sensible drivers
- the amp emit a noise when turn on or off (not a real DC thump because of the caps on the output, but still anoying when used on some expensive 2435h...)
- the volume control is crapy, and the L/R balance is wrong. This is really a problem in an active setup because if the balance vary with each amp you totaly loose coherency and blend between drivers.

I am sure all of the above can be resolved:
- the hiss might be due to some cheap components in the original t-amp
- the super T-amp comes with a timed relay that prevent on/off noise, and such a mechanism can be added to any amp (albeit not that cheap when compared to the price of the amp)
- the balance can be adjusted with some other device

[hjames]

It sounded very interesting - so after reading the full review, I clicked the manufacturers site link - http://www.trendsaudio.com/

Maybe its just the east coast ice storm, but I get "site not found"

It's billed as an audiophile version of the SI and cost about $150. 6moons did a nice review on it.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/trends/ta10.html

I found a used one for sale locally for not much more than an sonic impact + power supply, so for me it was a no brainier.... If you've already got a PS, $150 is a bit steep compared to a gen I sonic impact.

As far as volume is concerned it shouldn't be a problem for home use with that BMS driver which is 115db/w/m (same as my Altec)... the T-amps are really only 5 watts into 8ohms.

[Steve71]

Yeah, it looks like the site is down...

Just to echo what some others have said, I do get a bit of hiss with the TA- 10.1, but I can only hear it if the room is pretty much silent. There is a bit of power on noise, but not enough to concern me.

The one thing I really liked about the TA 10.1 was the ability to bi-pass the (very average) volume pot and use it as a power amp. You just need to change some internal jumpers.

At any rate there are plenty of TA2024 based amps out there. There's even some ready made kits for $20 on epay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-15-watt-4ohm-T...QQcmdZViewItem

Check out DIYaudio.com forums for more info. There was a thread discussing these kits.

[Skywave-Rider]

It sounded very interesting - so after reading the full review, I clicked the manufacturers site link - http://www.trendsaudio.com/

Maybe its just the east coast ice storm, but I get "site not found"

It's back up hjames, try it again. They're apparently made in Hong Kong.

...several problems:
- some hiss can be heard with such sensible drivers
- the amp emit a noise when turn on or off (not a real DC thump because of the caps on the output, but still anoying when used on some expensive 2435h...)
- the volume control is crapy, and the L/R balance is wrong. This is really a problem in an active setup because if the balance vary with each amp you totaly loose coherency and blend between drivers.

I am sure all of the above can be resolved:
- the hiss might be due to some cheap components in the original t-amp
- the super T-amp comes with a timed relay that prevent on/off noise, and such a mechanism can be added to any amp (albeit not that cheap when compared to the price of the amp)
- the balance can be adjusted with some other device

This is probably a good reason to go with a Super T, for the relay. OTOH, In that 6Moons article, they state the Trends amp is not driven as hard as the T-Amps, resulting in lower distortion.

I plan to get back to the SET one of these days, after this long break, it will be the ultimate test! I tried the TA-10 because my SET has a nasty ground loop that I can only eliminate by inserting a decoupling transfo in one of the cables from the preamp, if I use a transfo in each cable, the situation gets worse, even if it's theoretical, I don't like using different cable types for each channel.

Let us know what your immediate impression is when you finally go back to the SET amp. Should be interesting. I had a ground loop problem only when using my tube amp and only with one piece of equipment. But this went away when I inserted a Variac in front of the tube amp. It takes down my VAC to 110 for the tube amp only, but also acts to isolate that amp from any ground loop return. I would suggest an AC power isolation transformer in your case. I need the Variac because my amp is c. 1961.

Thanks for all of your impressions, I think they are helpful. I think that the hiss is the biggest downside for me. I do work at low to moderate volumes. As far as the transient at power up/down, I think I would leave the thing on 24/7. Although I tend to think the snap is not strong enough to hurt the driver; tell me if I'm wrong.

Nobody's really complaining about the quality of the sound, at least that above noise level. Hmmmm.

Anybody think the cheap 50.00 T-Amp is in the running for my application, or should I onlty consider the Super-T or the Trends Audio?

[Skywave-Rider]

At any rate there are plenty of TA2024 based amps out there. There's even some ready made kits for $20 on epay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-15-watt-4ohm-T...QQcmdZViewItem

Check out DIYaudio.com forums for more info. There was a thread discussing these kits.

If that could be bridged to mono, I'd buy 2 of those kits, and mount them at the rear of the driver. Thanks Steve, I'll look for some DIY info on that.

[Steve71]

If that could be bridged to mono, I'd buy 2 of those kits, and mount them at the rear of the driver. Thanks Steve, I'll look for some DIY info on that.

You're welcome . Unfortunately I'm pretty certain you can't bridge T-amps. But five clean watts should give you 118db at a 10 foot listening position

SPL calculator:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

[scorpio]

It sounded very interesting - so after reading the full review, I clicked the manufacturers site link - http://www.trendsaudio.com/

Maybe its just the east coast ice storm, but I get "site not found"

If any problem, you should be able to order it from buyoyo.com directly from HK, they were unbeliveably efficient when I ordered it (faster to be delivered from HK that to have a parcel delivered by the post within Belgium!).