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Thread: Urei 813b project

  1. #16
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Rob found references I didn't know existed....

    Funny thing about the almighty sub is he decries using active assist in subs, then goes ahead and does it.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Bob Womack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles0322 View Post
    Really nice soffit install. 3/4 ply press fit. What do you use for a base, sand or concrete?
    Thanks! This room was built according to Live-End Dead-End principles, one of which is to prevent conduction through walls and floor to the mix position. As you may know, conduction through a solid transfers sound faster than through a gas, so when the sound is re-radiated from the floor to the mix position, phase interference results.

    To prevent this, we cut through the concrete building foundation and poured new footings into the ground underneath the floor with bolts integrated to secure steel columns. The columns were fabricated with flanges at each end to bolt to the footings and accept the receiving boxes on top. The receiving boxes were fabricated from double layer, glued and screwed, 3/4" plywood. Once they were fabricated, mounted, and aligned, conduit was run to them and wall construction could begin. The triple walls were erected separately with no physical connection between themselves and the boxes and mounts. You can see a bit of the white flexible sealant used to fill the gap between the boxes and the wall at the bottom of the opening.

    Once the room was in the final construction stages, the wiring was run and the boxes were lined with dense rubber strips to isolate the speakers. The speakers were then press-fit into the boxes. As an LEDE roon (unlicensed in this case), the control room is largely anechoic on the front and and diffuse on the rear. There are RPG quadratic diffusers across the rear that were designed specifically for our installation by Peter D’Antonio at RPG Systems.
    I have lots of questions (sorry)
    No problem!
    Do you think I can use the 2226H as subs? And re-cone the 2235 as a 2234?
    I really don't know the wiring config for the "B" version of this speaker but the "C" variant has the option to power the LF separately. It should be noted that the manual for the "C" version specifically warns against electronically pushing the response below 80hz more than 6db to extend the frequency response. The stated reason is to prevent distortion and damage. It recommends that no boost at all be applied below 30hz for the same reasons. That's one reason why I've approached the LF situation at home from the angle of using an external subwoofer. I'm not sure that bi-amping the systems and pushing the response in the LF range won't just cause the same effects.
    how much should it cost to recap the the x-overs..
    Addressed by another poster.
    Right now I have two Crown PS-200's I'm using bridged mono.. is it sufficient for these in quality & power.
    For home use, probably. For a control room, the manual suggests a minimum of 300 watts at 4 ohms, to allow more dynamic range without distortion. Remember that if you subwoof your system with separate amplification, you are reducing the wattage requirements for the main system.

    By the way, while we were building the room, we operated these 813B/Cs unsoffitted in another room and they worked fine. The soffitting extended the bass response, but I'll be honest that I aesthetically prefer the LF range of my subwoofed 811Cs at home. I've described it this way on the forum before: The soffitted 813s have a smoother bass response than the non-soffitted, subwoofed 811s, but the subwoofed 811s have a more solid, deeper low-end.

    It should be noted that the 813s are powered by David Hafler amps and gently smoothed by Clarke-Technik room EQs. Because they are used as primary control monitors, the installation has been TEF'd for frequency response and time spectrum analysis. The mixes I create on these monitors are very predictable and balanced.

    The 811s came out of a control room and are now my home system. Though I've done rudimentary frequency sweeps, I can't vouched for their accuracy and no mixing is being done on them. I do audition work at home, but that's about it. They are set to be pleasing, not dead accurate.

    Bob
    "It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
    Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

    THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM

  3. #18
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    This post will not be helpful at all, I assure you, but I just wanted to say I have ALWAYS wanted a pair of 813's. Currently I have 809's that I have had reconed (10+ years ago) by the only person in Michigan certified to work on Ureis and recently rebuilt the cabinets to make them more appealing in the livingroom.

    The cabinets are identical in construction to the original cabinets with the exception that I have created a lip that will hold a speaker grill.


    Anyway, I am extremely jealous.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urei809 View Post
    This post will not be helpful at all, I assure you, but I just wanted to say I have ALWAYS wanted a pair of 813's. Currently I have 809's that I have had reconed (10+ years ago) by the only person in Michigan certified to work on Ureis and recently rebuilt the cabinets to make them more appealing in the livingroom.

    The cabinets are identical in construction to the original cabinets with the exception that I have created a lip that will hold a speaker grill.


    Anyway, I am extremely jealous.
    I love them Big & Ugly, lol..

    I grew up in Quebec, Canada.. Disco was big in Montreal earlier on and they had a lot of disco systems.. I grew up listening to music on JBL & I fell in love!

    I have worked at Stereo Montreal since 1999. These Urei 813b were originally the dj booth monitors at Stereo. They were purchased by Angel Moraes from Francois Kevorkian in the 90's. I always really loved these speakers and Angel knew it. Finally they became too cumbersome for Angel to drag around and my best friend and I purchased them to eventually use in a studio.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
    Thanks! This room was built according to Live-End Dead-End principles, one of which is to prevent conduction through walls and floor to the mix position. As you may know, conduction through a solid transfers sound faster than through a gas, so when the sound is re-radiated from the floor to the mix position, phase interference results.
    Bob
    The level of specifications awes me I admire people who take sound to the next level!

    I will build these 2226 bass cabs, two of them, use them in stereo as Mr. Hoda suggests. Can I use the 8ohm version to the same effect as the suggested 4 ohm?

    Soffits is way to involved for my budget and I just don't have that specifically designed room to suit.

    I want to thank everyone contributing to this thread!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urei809 View Post
    This post will not be helpful at all, I assure you, but I just wanted to say I have ALWAYS wanted a pair of 813's. Currently I have 809's that I have had reconed (10+ years ago) by the only person in Michigan certified to work on Ureis and recently rebuilt the cabinets to make them more appealing in the livingroom.

    The cabinets are identical in construction to the original cabinets with the exception that I have created a lip that will hold a speaker grill.

    Anyway, I am extremely jealous.
    I've got a set of the 809s, too, UREI809. I can tell you that they are voiced _very_ similar to the 813s. The biggest difference is the soundstage of the 813s is a bit larger and can be pushed harder (read: louder).

    If I had a smaller room, I would seriously consider using 809s along with bass augmentation. Rebuild your crossovers, if you haven't yet. Its worth it.

    I feel that your jealousness is somewhat misplaced. That is, you are not that far off from the 813s as it is.

    Cheers,

    David

  7. #22
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    pics








  8. #23
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    In the booth at Stereo Montreal, 2000


  9. #24
    Senior Member Bob Womack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles0322 View Post
    Soffits is way to involved for my budget and I just don't have that specifically designed room to suit.
    My 811cs at home are not soffitted, by the way. They sit on top of my little 200 watt, 12" Sony subs. We made up a felt pad between. I plan to build grilles for these monsters. They look a little, mmmm... industrial for the living room.



    Bob

    If you are interested in how my little stereo came about and want to see pix of a REALLY cool home theater system based on UREIs that was built by the forum's own Frederick, look HERE .
    "It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
    Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

    THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by doodlebug View Post
    I've got a set of the 809s, too, UREI809. I can tell you that they are voiced _very_ similar to the 813s. The biggest difference is the soundstage of the 813s is a bit larger and can be pushed harder (read: louder).

    If I had a smaller room, I would seriously consider using 809s along with bass augmentation. Rebuild your crossovers, if you haven't yet. Its worth it.

    I feel that your jealousness is somewhat misplaced. That is, you are not that far off from the 813s as it is.

    Cheers,

    David
    Thanks for the info. The crossovers are stock originals.

    I had originally bought these for recording but now they are in the living room. I absolutely love the sound of them - realistic and with energy is how I describe them acoustically - but my wife was not in love with their appearance (they were pretty beat).

    Over the Christmas holiday I build new cabinets for them (structurally identical) but prettier. I honestly think they sound better now too, these cabinets have a ton less vibration than the originals.

    So, where can I get the crossovers rebuilt and how much should that cost me?

    Here is a before and after picks.




  11. #26
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    Seems to me I spent around $50 in parts for the caps on my 809s. I just pulled the woofers out and put them aside, then just pulled the crossover boards out without fully disconnecting them. I then just desoldered each of the caps and replaced them, one for one. I believe I had to use some paralleled caps to get the right values.

    The schematic is downloadable from JBL, I believe, but I _always_ check the boards to confirm values before ordering parts. I used Solen caps but they are a bit larger than the originals due to higher voltage ratings. This required a bit more work to get them installed in order to slide the boards back into the original cabinet's mounting holes.

    Oh, and Charles0322, apologies for highjacking your thread. Love the pics of the speakers in the studios. I wish I had a pic of the set I have when they were at Fantasy Studios in Oakland.

    Cheers,

    David

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by doodlebug View Post
    Oh, and Charles0322, apologies for highjacking your thread. Love the pics of the speakers in the studios. I wish I had a pic of the set I have when they were at Fantasy Studios in Oakland.

    Cheers,

    David
    No problem, I love reading about Urei speakers.. I like listening to them a whole lot more

    I can't believe what I'm hearing out of these. Right now I have them hooked up to a BGW Performance series 3, 375 W @ 8 ohm. I used a couple of well produced tracks, a 12" Tom Moulton re-edit and a Daniel Lanois album on CD (I couldn't stop listening so let it play)

    I will re-cap the x-overs professionally eventually. If this is the benchmark and everything sounds better after some subs and mods!!! I am dumb founded.

    I have been in touch with Stig for the almighty sub woof. I will try to start building it but may need someone more accomplished in wood working..

    How do I crossover the 2226 subs to work with the 813b s? Do I send the signal from the Urei 1620 mixer to the crossover for the subs and the output from that x-over going to the Urei 813? Or do I use another output from the Urei mixer going into the crossover for the subs, and allow the 813's time align model 840 it's own input from the mixer.. I am thinking of crossing over the 2226 subs @ 150hz. I am a little puzzled how to incorporate the subs while utilizing the 813's in stk form.

    a couple more pics of my setup..





  13. #28
    Senior Member Bob Womack's Avatar
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    Your best bet may be either an active crossover or a "bass management system" such as Bag End uses.

    Bob
    "It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
    Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

    THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM

  14. #29
    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
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    charles0322,

    are you planning on a RLA styled crossover in your system?
    maybe some old crown crossovers...
    old pioneer ones can be really nice as well...


    seems to fit with the 'era' as they say....



    on a related note...

    I am picking up the Urei 809As i had gotten refoamed this afternoon



    plan on using either a Crown DC150 or Phase Linear 200 Series II to power them

    single EAW SB48e for subwoofer while i try to find/clone another three....


  15. #30
    Senior Member stephane RAME's Avatar
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