Soundtrax FOH

[boputnam]

Anybody know this brand of sound desk? I've got a show in a fortnight that has one built-in - they say it's much like a Soundcraft (which I know well...), and may be UK made.

I'd love a Link where I can read some manuals, or see the general layout.

Anybody know anything about these?

Always planning...

[Don McRitchie]

http://www.soundtracs.com/soundt/docs/front/front_3.htm

[boputnam]

You da man...

I tried every other spelling I thought of.

Humbled by your presents (sic).

[boputnam]

I can see me now...

Yikes!

[boputnam]

Anyway, the FOH is one of their analogue desks - so, this ain't much help.

Typical. We headline, our soundcheck will be washed clean by the opening acts, and we go live, 24-channels, stereo, to full house.

You ain't felt real anxiety 'til you done this...

[Ian Mackenzie]

Yeah but Bo,

You should have your 4345's installed in a large OB Van out the back for the final mix and mastering on a Neve ..thats your place, not behind the chicken wire.

Seriously, there is always a risk with FOH, particularly with a new venue, PA and band first time round....I call it triple SHITS

Ian

[Oldmics]

Hey Bo
My Soundtracs experience is that its just another desk.Make sure to spend some time to ascertain weather or not your aux sends are pre or post fader and pre or post EQ.They send em from the factory on the smaller boards as switchable on the fader but fixed as post only on the EQ section.Real wide fixed "Q" on everything on the strip.Not gonna zip in tight like on a XL-4. Still a pretty warm sounding console.The big desks were called "Megas",smaller guys are the "Solo" series which included "Solo MIDI".
In my opinion any console with "MIDI being used live is a ticket to hell.Hope you don"t end up on that or some of the other horrible creations that they built in the past.The two above mentioned consoles should make for a fun time.
Now if you want to talk about weird stuff-Quantec reverbs anyone?
Oh and remember the lead singers girlfriend is always right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Enjoy your gig-the season has started.
Oldmics

[boputnam]

Ha! Oldmics, yer killin' me...

I prefer to run Aux sends pre-fader, pre-EQ (as it should be, right? ), but thanks for the tips - ALWAYS appreciated! I'll watch for the Q band-width, but may not be able to know anything. I tend to run the strips flat-as-I-can, and deal with the Aux and Mains via the 1/3 octave EQ's. What else can a guy do...?

If you know anything about the strip EQ layout, I'd be indebted. Are there "sweep" mids (Lo and Hi mid)? How many Aux - 6? Phantom by strip or global? Lo-cut by strip? And, how many buses are these, typically?

Since I have your attention - I've been struggling with FX on vocals. Just can't seem to find the right compliment. I'm searching for a nice ambiance/presence (HF) impact w/o obvious reverb. Our road rack (which I inherited...) has a simple little Lexicon MPX-100, which I simply cannot make right. Clues?? I've been playing around with "Hall", but am not finding what I want...

Oh, and didn't you and I go 'round about mis-use of the SmaartLIVE? True enough, but it saved the show last weekend (similar circumstances), - I had an Earthworks mic on-stage and could RTA EQ the Mons from FOH - nice trick. After the first set it was moot, but that first 90-seconds was madness and the visibility of SmaartLIVE's RTA was so very valuable. During the show, the Transfer function is un-matched. Period.

Sorry to bother, but I prefer to arrive with a plan that works - at least for the most part!

Thanks, dude - you've been a GREAT help!

(ps - to Ken Pachalphabet - that AudioControl SA-3050A is a wonder. Second only to the SmaartLIVE. Nice piece of hardware, and plenty roadworthy... )

[Oldmics]

Hi Bo
The aux send determination routing is up to you.If mons are sent from F.O.H.,you would certainly want the auxs set as pre fader and pre E.Q.This way any of your moves at F.O.H. do not change what the musos are hearing onstage.I am sure that I am not telling you anything new here.
Personally I sometimes use post fader and post E.Q. for effects sends.This depends on if I want the equalised tone as part of the effected sound.Sometimes this is a help to get more bottom in the reverb of something like a piccolo snare drum.
The strips on the Megas are pretty standard.It is NOT a fully parametric strip.From the top,
phantom 48 switch on each strip
line switch button
attn (gain) pot
phase switch
hi pass switch fixed at 100 hz-rolloff at 12 db per octave
hi freq level pot-fixed at 12K, + or - 15 db
hi mid level pot,+ or - 15 db
hi mid freq point sweepable 350 hz to 8K
low mid level pot,+ or - 15 db
low mid freq point sweepable 50 hz to 1K
low level pot-fixed at 80 hz,= or - 15 db
aux 1
aux 2
aux 3
aux 4
aux 5
aux 6
Above on auxs (from factory as standard)-ALWAYS CHECK EM AND THERE RELATED GAIN STRUCTURE, BOB!
1 and 2 are pre fader,3 and 4 switchable pre or post,5 and 6 post
No VCAs,4 or 8 subgroups.
Solo Consoles
The same E.Q strip EXCEPT FOR global phantom power.Both consoles use 100 mm faders (cheap "o"s not P+G)
As I said,just another desk.

Vocal stuff-always a challenge.Some guys like the SPX chorus or tremelo sound(I personally do not).
Its tough to make a suggestion here since the material that the band plays suggests what effects should be used.I personally like plate verbs.You have to adjust them down real small for a usable vocal trick.Perhaps try that.
When I get to mix what I like (pop bands)The stuff that I use on vocals is pretty intense.Always availiable on the vocal effects in varing amounts, for short delay PCM 42,two verbs PCM80 and a Quantec and an Eventide Harmonizer.
For the rest of the mix on drums two PCM 70s one for snare and one for the toms and a dedicated long delay for specials on vocals or guitars.Sounds like a lot of junk and goo but used in the right amounts and right places its the iceing on the cake and since I carry it all its really an easy setup.Add to that a pile of Antares pitch correction units and a BSS 901 parametric compresser for each vocal input and you get killer vocals every time.Thats pretty much the rig I used with SR71.
I also like the SA units from Audio Control.I have an Iasys and a SA3055 (with the blue L.E.D.s) mounted in a rack.Thise are both great tools.Different applications than Smarrt live,but all very valuable.
I guess the only other thing that I could recomend is to get the musos happy fast onstage so that once they are out of your hair you can create what it should be out front without distractions(except perhps for some obvious cleavage).Its worth holding the show from going on until you feel confident that they are happy.
Only then can you rock!
Oldmics

[boputnam]

Dood! Thanks for that - all of it. Especially nice to know the strip EQ layout before I wear it. Much like the Soundcraft, overall.

Mon are FOH, so pre and pre, for sure. I also use post and post for re-routing the FX - maybe that's pretty standard. Works great.

Too bad on the 100mm faders - but, since it ain't Soundcraft I guessed as much.

...add to that a pile of Antares pitch correction units ...

The only difference - minor - is, I note the basic Mon settings from sound check, and then when we take the stage, I set each channel there, and back-off the Send gains a bit - no need to start with a standing wave! . I then get a workable FOH set fast as I can (the hell with the band...) w/o FX, and then start working the Mons, one-by-one. If the first few songs are long enough, I can get it by the time they would otherwise be ready to bitch. Hell, I only have 5 mixes to get right - what's the big deal?

Thanks again for all the FX tips - I've got some things to try. In particular, re-trying the plate verb - had poor results in the past, but maybe it was not subtle enough.

Big help, man. Thanks.

[boputnam]

Hey, oldmics...

Got through the dreaded gig - thanks for the strip tips.

That desk is not that much fun. A great deal of similarities with Soundcraft, but in the end, it is not one. The input preamps don't have near the headroom, and the badboy I sat behind was VU's only. Whoa - old school. There was some pretty good flexibility, but I did not get a good feel for the Q width - but we were the fourth act so by the time I took the wheel, there was heaps of "repair" to do - i.e., get the levels down to appropriate levels, and not much time for real craft. Shit it was loud at the start...

The AUX solo (PFL) were worthless - there was insufficient gain to hear what the monitors were doing. A huge handicap. Same-same on the busses. So, it was seat of the pants, but there were no complaints and plenty

Thanks again...

[Ken Pachkowsky]

Originally posted by boputnam
Ha! Oldmics, yer killin' me...


Thanks, dude - you've been a GREAT help!

(ps - to Ken Pachalphabet - that AudioControl SA-3050A is a wonder. Second only to the SmaartLIVE. Nice piece of hardware, and plenty roadworthy... )

Are you telling me you got one?

A little more accurate than that GOLDLAME 30xx you had right?

Ken

[boputnam]

Dood!

Yea, I snagged a SA-3050A and it literally saved our butt at a show where we had no sound check and started LIVE to a full house. The "house" sound guy was a dope, and knew nothing about everything. I was 'sposed to play harp - my debut with this band - but I tore off my Nudie Suit and swung into action. Been behind the FOH ever since. Luckily, I dragged the SA-3050A along, huh??!! So, thanks for the push on the SA-3050A.

And no, it turns-out there's nothing wrong with that GoldLine 30A - only a few worn batteries, is all. Matches the SA-3050A, nicely.

But, the cat's meow is SmaartLIVE in Transfer mode. Sure, it's got the best RTA around - period - but that Transfer mode is incredible power at the FOH desk.

Hey, Ian - you better study-up on this badboy. Maybe download the manual, hey? You'll be on FOH so I can play some harp, dammit!!

[Oldmics]

Or perhaps a visual display of someones hearing curve?

Don"t pick on the Goldlines,got a coupla them lying around also.

While SmaartLive is great tool,for componet analysis I prefer Praxis.Also allows me to use my laptop as a digital scope.

Oldmics

[boputnam]

Originally posted by Oldmics
...I prefer Praxis. Also allows me to use my laptop as a digital scope.

OLDMICS!! Dang it! Now I'm gonna need one of them, too...