Westlake TM1/TM3 clones

[cooky1257]

Latest...
After 2 unsuccessful eBay auctions for lots of 8 dias and beaten by snipers by $10 twice;-(
My impatience got the better of me and rather than waiting for a 'steal' and not being entirely immune to the stares of the supreme one I've sourced some.
Have you seen the extortionate prices of replacement JBL dias in the UK/EU?!!!!! someone is seriously taking the p*** with those- at least twice the price of US sourced units-no wonder there's a thriving aftermarket.
Anyway I got a 25% discount off MRSP =$172 each from www.prosoundparts.com. so am eagerly awaiting delivery-'bout 2 weeks.
They seem like pleasant people to deal with, very helpful.
Stand by Rich.....

[cooky1257]

Well after what seems like a lifetime I'm finally finished.
The final restore list runs to
2 x 2441 replacement MF diaphragms.
4 x 2335 bass recones
upgraded xover to 3106(caps n coils)
I eventually went tri-amped with the xover slopes;
LF. 2nd order Butterworth @900hz
MF 4th order LR @ 800hz/10.5khz
HF 4th order @ 10.5khz
The original set up had the bass roll off unfiltered with the MF coming in @ 800hz/18dB from a 5234.
Still at the tweaking stage regards driver alignment.
The image is huge, the dynamics are great fun, the stereo image isn't even close to my big Tannoys but the room isn't helping those 2397's and some treatment is urgently required. The bass units took a little while to settle down/run in before they started being as tunefull as the old 2231a's-they are different though to my ears, but again they could just be settling in and give these big monitors a wonderful clear and articulate bottom end.
They're more than some retro 'fun' speakers however, what they do they do mostly very very well indeed.
I will eventually build new highly finished cabs for all these fine drivers maybe slightly narrower but deeper to fit in my room.
I did take a photo record of all the cone /dias replacement procedures but will keep those to myself.
I've some stands next on my list too.
Was it worth it? Yes and I'm grateful to all those members who helped though it would be nice if some weren't so irritable-it puts you off asking sometimes.
Anyhow some pics;

[Mr. Widget]

Congratulations looks good!

A while back I was using 2397s. They will never image like a point source design, but if you can control the early reflections it will help out the imaging greatly.

FWIW: I originally used the JBL 2441s with my 2397s... later I tried the TAD TD-4001s on them and I thought the improvement was worth the cost.


Widget

[cooky1257]

Congratulations looks good!

A while back I was using 2397s. They will never image like a point source design, but if you can control the early reflections it will help out the imaging greatly.

FWIW: I originally used the JBL 2441s with my 2397s... later I tried the TAD TD-4001s on them and I thought the improvement was worth the cost.


Widget

Thanks Widget,
I had wondered 'where next?" and "what next?" driver wise.
The TADS will have to wait I'm afraid unless a real bargain came along.
I read a thread about some aftermarket Be dias but it seemed to go quiet on that front -maybe the very idea of cheap and Be can never come together.
Next step is to get the room/speakers measured for some final tweaking.
Cooky

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks Widget,
I had wondered 'where next?" and "what next?" driver wise.
The TADS will have to wait I'm afraid unless a real bargain came along.

I waited for years until I ran across a mint pair for $1100. It can happen.

Next step is to get the room/speakers measured for some final tweaking.
Cooky

I don't think the TAD improvement would be as great as room treatment... especially with those horns.


Widget

[cooky1257]

I waited for years until I ran across a mint pair for $1100. It can happen.
I don't think the TAD improvement would be as great as room treatment... especially with those horns.


Widget

I'll keep the visa card dusted and ready;-)
I'll try some large cushion madness and more curtains combined with some extra toe in to begin with.
Anything to be gained by blocking off part of the horns?
Cooky

[Mr. Widget]

Anything to be gained by blocking off part of the horns?

I wouldn't.

In my room I had heavy velvet curtains. If the side walls were both covered, the image came into focus, with the curtains pulled back the image was gone and the sound source was extremely difficult to localize.

I also had the benefit of a large room. In a tight space, you may not be able to appreciate them at their best without drastic measures.


Widget

[cooky1257]

I wouldn't.

In my room I had heavy velvet curtains. If the side walls were both covered, the image came into focus, with the curtains pulled back the image was gone and the sound source was extremely difficult to localize.

I also had the benefit of a large room. In a tight space, you may not be able to appreciate them at their best without drastic measures.


Widget

Ok. I'll see how it goes with curtains-thanks again.
Cooky1

[StillUse4560s]

Cooky,

Nice work.

I'm building a '4397' of sorts. It's got some similarities to your project.

It is essentially the 4345 with the 2397 in it in lieu of the 2308? and the lens.

So, it's motivating to see the 2397 in your project as well.

So, congrats, hope you're enjoying results of your work.

Thanks for the photos,

Don't know if you saw the Smith Horn Thread that came back to life recently: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=9148

Your project and the above thread were an enjoyable read.

Mike

[cooky1257]

Cooky,

Nice work.

I'm building a '4397' of sorts. It's got some similarities to your project.

It is essentially the 4345 with the 2397 in it in lieu of the 2308? and the lens.

So, it's motivating to see the 2397 in your project as well.

So, congrats, hope you're enjoying results of your work.

Thanks for the photos,

Don't know if you saw the Smith Horn Thread that came back to life recently: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=9148

Your project and the above thread were an enjoyable read.

Mike

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the link -I did read that at the time.
I plan eventually to make some Westlake equivalent 2397's.
Good luck with your project.
Cooky

[cooky1257]

A couple of things that intrigue me about the Westlake Smith horns are why do they have asymmetric top/bottom lip profiles and what is the purpose of the slight curvature to the top horn surface?
Does the asymmetry produce a tilted vertical dispersion patern?, does it have anything to do with counteracting any interference with the hf unit close by?-questions, questions and just an empty head to work with.

[pentictonklaus]

Nice.... I see you are another one of us who goes for the smaller more compact speakers.

This is what I read from the music DVD : Mike Oldfield, Tubular Bells 2003.

" This recording can still not be played on old tin boxes
no matter what they are fitted with. If you are in possession
of such equipment hand it in to the nearest police station. "

I am glad to see one of the big speakers coming alive again. Right on.

Klaus