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Thread: 4435 with Digital EQ

  1. #1
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    4435 with Digital EQ

    I recently bought a Behringer DEQ2496 that I am using with my JBL 4435s.

    Before I ran the auto room EQ, I set the L-pad knobs to 0. I wonder if I that is correct - letting the digital EQ take care of everything, or if there is any logic in trying to smooth my room response with the 4435's crossover and letting the Behringer finish the job...

    I am new to this type of stuff, so sorry if this is an obvious question.

    Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated!

    Thanks, James

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    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermoon View Post
    Before I ran the auto room EQ, I set the L-pad knobs to 0. I wonder if I that is correct - letting the digital EQ take care of everything, or if there is any logic in trying to smooth my room response with the 4435's crossover and letting the Behringer finish the job...
    It depends upon your level of sophistication - both from the perspective of your ears and gear. If it was me, I'd never "auto EQ", anything, ever. I am particularly wary of the results (curves) I've seen others get using that function on that same device, unconstrained.

    If you have no means to take proper measurements of your room's reaction (read: response) to your 4435's, and you like the result you achieved with this then you're good to go.

    IF I was to go this route ( ), the L-pad settings should have little/no impact - you are letting the magical device "correct" for the response post L-pads, so it all should be "fine"...
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

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    Senior Member Skywave-Rider's Avatar
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    I just got my DEQ2496 today and it has already failed. Turn it on and it cycles power on/off rapidly and continuously. So BSW gave me an argument, but I'm getting another. The power on/off thing started after about 1 hour of use. I had read that there were overheat problems with early versions.

    I intended to use this for RTA on my Altecs to see what my added tweeter is doing -- and to adjust mid and high L-pads too.

    I intended to set the measurement mic at about 3 feet to minimize room effects while setting the l-pads. I would then do some room eq at a conventional listening distance, if needed.

    So I am delayed in my experiments.

    Let me know how your DEQ2496 is working.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    It depends upon your level of sophistication - both from the perspective of your ears and gear. If it was me, I'd never "auto EQ", anything, ever. I am particularly wary of the results (curves) I've seen others get using that function on that same device, unconstrained.

    If you have no means to take proper measurements of your room's reaction (read: response) to your 4435's, and you like the result you achieved with this then you're good to go.

    IF I was to go this route ( ), the L-pad settings should have little/no impact - you are letting the magical device "correct" for the response post L-pads, so it all should be "fine"...
    Hi, thanks for the reply.

    So far this little box has made a pretty huge difference. I have a temporary listening area setup right now that is not near ideal, so maybe when I put stuff back, it will make less of a difference. I plan to use this combined with room treatments to help me on my quest for audio nirvana... But, so for I am pretty well blown away. Just doing an EQ for each speaker has cleaned up my bass a large amount. It's almost like before bass was sort of a blanket over the whole sound, and now it is separated.

    I find that some old metal albums sound much better just by widening the stereo image. Lots of stuff to play with on this unit...

    Anyways, just watching the spectrum analyzer while listening to tunes has made it worth the modest cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywave-Rider View Post
    I just got my DEQ2496 today and it has already failed. Turn it on and it cycles power on/off rapidly and continuously. So BSW gave me an argument, but I'm getting another. The power on/off thing started after about 1 hour of use. I had read that there were overheat problems with early versions.

    I intended to use this for RTA on my Altecs to see what my added tweeter is doing -- and to adjust mid and high L-pads too.

    I intended to set the measurement mic at about 3 feet to minimize room effects while setting the l-pads. I would then do some room eq at a conventional listening distance, if needed.

    So I am delayed in my experiments.

    Let me know how your DEQ2496 is working.
    Sorry to hear.

    That's one reason why I decided to pay a bit more and purchase locally. I actually powered it up at the store to make sure it was OK.

    Better luck with your next one.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Skywave-Rider's Avatar
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    I just spoke to BSW again, canceling the exchange, just getting a refund, except for the measurement mic. Going to go out and get one from SamAsh or wherever. So when it breaks again, I can walk it over...

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    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermoon View Post
    ...So far this little box has made a pretty huge difference.
    Yes, I'm sure it is a marked improvement if nothing was there, before. Just be aware that as the sophistication of your knowledge, hearing and system grow, it would be a good thing to ougrow this particular device and move up the food chain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermoon View Post
    ...I find that some old metal albums sound much better just by widening the stereo image. Lots of stuff to play with on this unit...
    My old records are vinyl - you are pretty sophisticated, after all!

    But, explain this "wide imaging" thingy...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermoon View Post
    ...Anyways, just watching the spectrum analyzer while listening to tunes has made it worth the modest cost.
    Yea, well there is that. However, start studying the response character, visually, and identify with the different frequencies. Save your preset, but start tweaking the curve yourself. Carefully make some extreme boosts/notches and understand what you are hearing and what is happening. Focus on the A-Weighted SPL curve - that area is where the ear has the most sensitivity and you will notice if things are over-represented there it can be tiring.

    Also, if you're really into it, try the Simple Feedback Trainer. It will humble you and sharpen your frequency recognition skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Yes, I'm sure it is a marked improvement if nothing was there, before. Just be aware that as the sophistication of your knowledge, hearing and system grow, it would be a good thing to ougrow this particular device and move up the food chain.
    I think it (or another few) will eventually live in my theatre room.

    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    My old records are vinyl - you are pretty sophisticated, after all!
    lol I like to check the composition of the metal, make sure there isn't too much tin in it...

    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    But, explain this "wide imaging" thingy...?
    There is a function called "width". With it you can compress or expand the stereo image. I was listening to an older album and it felt like it was missing something compared to some newer stuff. it just didn't have a feeling of breadth. The whole image seemed way too centered. Just expanding it made the album much more listenable... Funny how when I listened to that album 20 years ago on a crappy ghetto blaster I thought it sounded great...

    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Yea, well there is that. However, start studying the response character, visually, and identify with the different frequencies. Save your preset, but start tweaking the curve yourself. Carefully make some extreme boosts/notches and understand what you are hearing and what is happening. Focus on the A-Weighted SPL curve - that area is where the ear has the most sensitivity and you will notice if things are over-represented there it can be tiring.
    It has been a learning experience watching the waveform along with the music. I'm getting a better feel for what frequencies make what sounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Also, if you're really into it, try the Simple Feedback Trainer. It will humble you and sharpen your frequency recognition skills.
    will do, thanks!

  9. #9
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    I recently picked one up on the Bay with a mic for $135. I've been using it in designing and tweeking new crossovers. Like you, I place the mic at ~1-2 meters and do it in the room in which the speakers are to be used. I don't do it at the "sweet spot." It is also a fantastic tool for determining the best speaker phasing. Previously, I used an sound leevel meter looking for the louder volume in the crossover area. But with the Behringer, you can "see" what's happening in that area and you find that either phase will yield some freqs louder and others quietier, but one will be smoother.

    So far mine is used just for the RTA feature and it's not "in the system." Eventually, one channel may be used for the center to improve intelligibility while the other could augment the subs.

    I have a Yamaha RX-Z9 and it autoeqs the system to the "sweet spot." But, like all autoeq, it has its limits in the cut/boost, the Q, and number of bands processed. The Yamaha looks to the worst offenders and while it has 31 bands available, I believe it can ony process 10 at any time. So, by my logic, if I can optimize the crossovers and speaker placement, then maybe those bands that were being corrected are no longer the worst offenders and the Yamaha can go on to work in other areas. (This would apply even if the Yamaha does process 31 bands simultaneously.)

    So contrary to boputnam's reply...,
    "IF I was to go this route ( ), the L-pad settings should have little/no impact - you are letting the magical device "correct" for the response post L-pads, so it all should be "fine"..."

    in my case, it does pay to try to tweek the speakers to the room as best as possible before letting the Yamaha do its thing.

    Also contrary to boputnam (sorry guy), the 31 bands on the Behringer are preset and your crossover tweeking may affect areas between the bands to some advantage.

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    Senior Member Skywave-Rider's Avatar
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    Hey Wintermoon,
    I picked up another locally at B&H. Guess what. Another lemon. Does the same thing as the first one as well as other crazy stuff. Can't believe it. What's the serial number on your unit?

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    quality control is terrible on those. If something comes out with HDMI that will be the way to go, plug it into the laptop and use software , this way you can beat even the DEQX easily, HDMI is blast if done right.

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    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Have you used a DEQX

    Hi Readswift,

    having Just purchased the DEQX 2.6 P I'd be very interested in your findings

    Rich

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    HDMI is superior to current audio formats cause one reason: Its totally asynchronous, data contains no clocking information , this fact leads to inherently better jitter spec . There are 8 24bit 192 khz audio channels. Put the cpu resources of a whole x86 core into the equation and everything is set for hi-end DRC.
    I never tried the DEQX , only the product of the 90's three letter company whose name escapes me now. Those were big bucks back then.

    So, the deqx facts - none of the following are async:


    Input source switching (1x SPDIF, 1x AES/EBU, 1x Balanced Analog, 1x RCA Analog)

    what is your source into the deqx? Im using Lynx AES-16 , going into Nelson Pass D-1 copies ( no , not the half dollar opamp & delta sigma dac )

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    Volume control, implemented post-DAC on the analog signal to maintain full bit-resolution in the digital domain


    discrete? hardly

    DAC output ... discrete? They would brag about it, hardly has a chance either. Delta sigma converters are dependant on jitter. Why DEQX arent HDMI early adopters? Dunno... Hope we wont argue about whether math is done right on DSP or x86 CPU , cause tale is about (in chronologicla order) :
    1. method of clock distribution
    2. converter topology
    3. current into voltage conversion ( I/V )
    4. preamp

    I can go into details one by one if there is interset.

  15. #15
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    Also , dont forget about a company: Accuphase, something has to be there to justify the price between those products & the deqx ... And there it is , Im biased too

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