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Thread: Charge Coupled Crossover

  1. #16
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    A top board goes in place to protect the caps and coils.
    Nice work/layout.

    ...figured that's what the standoffs were for. Plexiglass? or are these intended
    for internal cab use? -grumpy

  2. #17
    Senior Member Hoerninger's Avatar
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    Biasing

    The manual of a modern JBL speaker (guess which ) at Harman shows charge coupling as well.

    There are some patents which show ways of obtaining the DC voltage from the AC signal. I have found
    1. KOSS Electronics Inc., Milwaukee - patent 3,632,903
    2. American Technology Corporation, San Diego - patent 6,628,791 B1
    3. American Technology Corporation, San Diego - patent 7,158,646 B2
    obtained by http://www.pat2pdf.org/.
    The ATC patents are nearly the same, for me Figure 9 has been most inspiring:
    Stabilizing to ca. 3 V (1,1 W at 8 Ohm) and triblication.
    ____________
    Peter

  3. #18
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Hmmm..Someone's been busy. Nice work.

    l'll bet that lot took a month of Sunday's to get it to that stage.

    Ti Dome..I've long since stopped talking about this topic.....controlling the random noise floor coming through the Inbox was just too much hard work...particularly when the guy says he only wants to spent $10 or porn is navy watch. ..bring out the violin.....

    You guys just need to try it (CC).

    For stock vintage owners its a step in the right direction .

    Ian

  4. #19
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    Ed Meitner

    4313B you have reminded me of a lttle bit of history, in case anyone is interested.

    Ed Meitner is a true audio pioneer. I first met him in the early eighties when he was at Amber Electrodesign working with Wayne Jones. They had moved from making the Olive automated mixing consoles to new, radically better analog-based distortion analyser designs. Leading edge stuff back then, I still have one here and it performs like new.

    I think the PC controlled Audio Precison product came in just after that and took over most of the market.

    I had an opportunity to audition the prototypes of what was to become the Museatex line of electronics in the future at Ed's home. Ed also had just invented a novel way to interface MM phono catrtidges using them as a current, rather than a voltage, source.

    I actually have a couple of DIY versions of this MM design that are still in use here today. They have remarkably low noise and very good sonic performance.

    The first time I personally encountered CC caps was in a Ward Beck broadcast distribution amplifier from the late seventies. The design used tantalum coupling capacitors in the interests of saving PCB space and they featured DC biasing. The biasing was likely as a result of their inherent poor sonic performance in audio circuits. FWIW, a good example of this would be the Revox A77 which is full of tantalums. An A77 with better caps takes it to a new level of performance.

    This would predate the famous Jung/Marsh arcticles in Audio by quite a bit of time.

    I hope this isn't too OT.

  5. #20
    Obsolete
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chas View Post
    I hope this isn't too OT.
    I don't think it is. Thanks for the post Chas.

    http://www.emmlabs.com/html/about/ed.html

  6. #21
    Senior Member markd51's Avatar
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    Just curious, are there people who make these charge coupled X-Overs for others in audioland?
    Sounds interesting for my L-65's. Mark

  7. #22
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    OK, months ago I was looking at the network for the 4344MkII as it lines up with a project of mine, and was puzzled by the 9v battery.

    My intent to build a CC 3106 is because I currently use them between my 2404's and 2425's on 2344's. I know what the 3106 sounds like, and as simple as they are it looks like a good place to test.

    So let me see if I understand the theory behind this, the sign wave delivered from the amplifier is at its highest potential when the voicecoil is close to its peak, the point of least acoustical output. When the voicecoil accelerates back toward center, it is at maximum velocity and acoustical output as it passes thru center, at wich point the amplifier is currently at its lowest potential (pun intended) to control the coil motion. It is at this point the voltage crosses the zero line and the capacitor creates a step as it copes with changing polarity.

    In short, at the point of maximum acoustical output the capacitor has the best chance to make itself heard.

    So if I have it right, charge coupled caps for me.

    I looked high and low for a thread on this subject as charge coupled crossovers, not capacitors, oops.

    The 4344MkII scematic shows the 2.2m series resistor, I cought that, I just didn't understand the charged cap theory.

    As for the quote"should have stayed in the private forums", what the hell is that all about?!?

    I've said before, with out information sharing, we would still be hunting animals with sharp sticks.

    Thank you for sharing.

  8. #23
    Registered User MJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    OK, months ago I was looking at the network for the 4344MkII as it lines up with a project of mine, and was puzzled by the 9v battery.
    In short, at the point of maximum acoustical output the capacitor has the best chance to make itself heard.
    So if I have it right, charge coupled caps for me.

    I looked high and low for a thread on this subject as charge coupled crossovers, not capacitors, oops.
    Thank you for sharing.
    Applying a 9v charge, thru high resistance(6 meg ohm), to the common point of two series caps keeps the audio signal from crossing the dielectric zero point of the caps, thus eliminating the phase shift.

  9. #24
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Right. Thats what I got out of it.

    Thank you.

  10. #25
    Senior Member spwal's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I dont think this is a dead topic at all. Why should this be a private topic? I am starting to sound storm-ish here, but there are plenty of people interested in this topic.

  11. #26
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Well, I would have to agree. I most recently finished six months with 4355's and I am sufficiently impressed with the results.

    G.T. started all this way back when he modified a few pairs for some friends with 250Ti's. He did it the hard way and just modified the existing networks and we discussed that complete nightmare at length.

    The goal has been to make them as painless as possible to bolt in place of the stock networks as well as to make them reasonably easy to ship. A top board goes in place to protect the caps and coils.

    Welcome back 4313B ! Didn't recognize your new name and avatar, but I reconize your charge coupled 250TI networks every time I hear them .

    Glad to see you around these parts again...

    jblnut

  12. #27
    Senior Member spwal's Avatar
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    wow,

    thats alot of deleted text. i thought this was a free country?

  13. #28
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Do not confuse freedom of speech with the right to bar trolls ...

    Buy your own server and You Too can have a free country ...
    until the spammers try and take it from your cold hard fingers


    Quote Originally Posted by spwal View Post
    wow,

    thats alot of deleted text. i thought this was a free country?
    2ch: Oppo, Acurus RL-11, JBL 240ti, Heath AS101, Carver TFM-25,Von Schweikert VR4
    7: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460,

  14. #29
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    I'm Currently making a CC crossover for my L65's. I'll let you know how it turns out.


    -Tim
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  15. #30
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    I have a pair of L300's that I'm considering charge-coupling the crossovers. Analyzing the charge-coupled crossover schematics it seems to me if you remove the battery voltage the crossover reverts to the usual passive unit so an A/B listening comparison should be very easy just by putting a switch in the battery line. Has anyone tried this?

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