Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 36

Thread: Interesting "White Van" article

  1. #1
    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    in "managed decline"
    Posts
    10,054

    Interesting "White Van" article

    Here is a list of name of white van and what they go by.... Dont get ripped off...
    Do not buy it's a SCAM !
    Theater Logic L8ti Kirsch K3 Divinci DV-606 DiVinci D-6 Genesis G-6030 Millenium MTS-3200
    Theater Research TR-6100 Matrix Audio Concepts MX-1300 DanWave DW-6 Epic Sound 7.1
    Please Copy now, repost somewhere and share this info with others.
    The scammers don't want anyone to know about their scam
    so they will flag and remove this ad !
    Do a good deed and save someone from getting scammed !
    The speakers sold by the speakermen are of exceptionally poor quality,
    typically obtained for less than $50 from a local distributor.
    The speakers themselves have been reported as potentially damaging to any amplifier they are connected to.
    The risk of damage stems from an impedence curve that in some cases may drop
    below 2 ohms, which may overheat, short out, or permanently damage an
    amplifier not designed to handle such loads.
    Do a search for " white van speakers " you'll see how this scam goes
    Guy in suv or van drives up to you has these $3000 speakers , extras ??
    You can have em for a deal you can't pass up .
    He will try to get you to give him $50 or more up to $1500.00 for these $40 china speakers.

    He will tell you it's worth something crazy like 2000 or 3000 dollars
    show all kinds of crap like receipts , invoices , magazines , ads sheets, etc.
    He'll even point you to the company website to prove they are worth the 3 grand. Don't be fooled !
    So when he lowers his price to $100.00 you'll think you got the deal of a lifetime. $3000 speakers for $ 100 bucks ,
    no you got a crap set of $40 speakers and paid $100 or more for them.
    Just do a search for "white van speakers" and you'll see that not only are
    they worth only 40 bucks shipped from china , they may also be UNSAFE and damage your system.
    Watch out for the speaker guys in suv's or pickup trucks and vans
    selling home theater equipment.
    Many of the sales take place in the parking lots of Best Buy, Home Depot, Circuit City , Banks ,
    Carwashes , Gas Stations , Construction sites , etc
    heck they will even flag you down while you are driving down the road.
    Do not fall for the white van speaker scam , they are looking to rip you off !

    White Van Speaker List
    Acoustic Response Series 707
    Acoustic Image 3311 / 3312
    Acoustic Lab Technology
    Acoustic Monitor
    Acoustic 3312 Studio Monitor
    Acoustic Response

    Advanced Sound Technologies AST X2 1055
    Audiofile 583LR
    Audiofile 835LR
    Audiofile THX 6.1
    Audio Tech
    Dahlton KV 1500
    Dahlton KV 2500 TI Speakers
    Dahlton AV 5.1 THX
    DanWave DW-6
    DanWave DW-606
    DanWave DW-607
    DanWave DW-608
    Dan Wave DW-1000
    http://www.divincisound.com
    Divinci Sound
    DiVinci Innovative Sound & Bass
    Divinci Sound D6 D-6
    Divinci Sound DV7010 DV-7010
    Divinci Sound DV6030 Dv-6030
    Divinci Sound DV505 DV-505
    Divinci Sound DA6.1 DA-6.1
    Divinci D-52
    Divinci DV-606
    Divinci DV-607
    Divinci DV-608
    Divinci DV-1420
    Divinci DV-1450
    Divinci DV-1412
    Divinci DV-1450
    Divinci DV- 607
    Divinci DV-2150
    Divinci DV-2100
    Denmark
    Denmark Loud Speaker E830LR
    Digital Audio DHT 5.1
    Digital Audio SL-3810
    Digital Audio DA 2000SL / 2000CS
    Digital Audio 2000
    Digital Audio 2002
    Digital Audio 2012 7.1
    Digital Audio Professional Speaker Systems SL-3810
    Digital Audio Skyline 900-SL
    Digital Audio SL-3910 Speakers
    Digital Audio 2003 DA 5.1 Pro-Series III
    Digital Dogg Audio
    Digital Pro Audio
    Digital Pro Audio SL-T 2.8
    Digital Research 5.1 Pro Series
    Digital Research DA 5.1 Pro Series III
    Digital Research DR-1000
    Digital Research DR-2810
    Digital Research DR-1610
    Digital Research DR-1611
    Dogg Digital
    Dynalab
    Epiphany Audio speakers
    Elite Audio
    Elite Audio EA-505
    Elite Audio EA-608
    Elite Audio EA-1620
    Elite Audio EA-7012
    Epic Sound 7.1
    Fleetwood Audio
    Genesis
    Genesis Media Labs
    Genesis G-6.1 Digital Series
    Genesis G-505
    Genesis G-506
    Genesis G-507
    Genesis G-608
    Genesis G-609
    Genesis G-610
    Genesis G-1420
    Genesis G-1620
    Genesis G-1630
    Genesis G-2810
    Genesis G-2815
    Genesis R-2810
    Genesis G-2840
    Genesis G-2850
    Genesis G-2870
    Genesis G-2875
    Genesis G-2880
    Genesis G-2885
    Genesis G-2950
    Genesis G-2960
    Genesis G-6030
    Genesis G-6035
    Genesis G-6040
    Genesis G-7012
    http://www.genesismedialabs.com

    Grafdale
    Hauffman
    Innovative Sound Digital Pro Audio
    Kirsch K3
    Kirsch K10
    Kirsch Prodigy K803
    http://www.kirschloudspeakers.com
    Linear Phase studio monitors
    http://matrixaudioconcepts.com
    Matrix Audio Concepts
    Matrix MX-1300 MX1300 MX1300S
    MX-404
    MX-550
    MX-6160
    MX-2060
    MX-605S
    Millenium
    Millenium MTS-2006p
    Millenium MTS-2208
    Millenium MTS-2328
    Millenium MTS-2300
    Millenium MTS-2605
    Millenium MTS-3100
    Millenium MTS-3200
    Millenium MTS-4200
    Millenium MTS-5200
    http://www.mtsspeakers.com
    Omni Audio
    PSD (2.8)
    PTS PT-5500S
    PTS (Precision Transducer Systems)
    http://www.ptswoofers.com
    Palermo VA6.1
    Palermo VA 6.1
    Paradyme
    Pro Audio
    Pro Dynamics Pro Platinium Series
    Pro Dynamics PD-9600
    Proline Acoustic
    Protecsound PT-5000 digital surround sound system speakers
    Samurai 518
    Skyline AD-900SL
    Skyline Digital Denmark 800 or 900 "series"
    Studio Tech (Pro Poly Series)
    Theater Innovations (Ti 5100)
    TI-440MR TI~440MR
    TI-440R TI~440R
    TI-440M TI~440M
    TI-5100 TI~5100
    TI-5150T TI~5150T
    TI~1250 TI-1250
    TI~1255 TI-1255
    TI~1300 TI-1300
    TI~1650 TI-1650
    TI~1655 TI-1655
    TI~6000SD TI-6000SD
    TI~6100 TI-6100
    TI~1750 TI-6200
    http://www.theater-innovations.com
    Theater Logic
    http://theaterlogichomecinema.com/
    Theater Logic L5ti
    Theater Logic L6
    Theater Logic L8TI 5.1
    Theater Logic T 2400
    Theater Logic T 2450
    http://www.trtheaterresearch.com
    Theater Research DS-6.1
    Theater Research TR-12
    Theater Research TR-501
    Theater Research TR-502
    Theater Research TR-504
    Theater Research TR-505
    Theater Research TR-602
    Theater Research TR-603
    Theater Research TR-604
    Theater Research TR-605
    Theater Research TR-606
    Theater Research TR-607
    Theater Research TR-900
    Theater Research TR-1100
    Theater Research TR-1101
    Theater Research TR-1120
    Theater Research TR-1400
    Theater Research TR-1410 Digital Sound Speakers
    Theater Research TR-1610
    Theater Research TR-1611
    Theater Research TR-1620
    Theater Research TR-1621
    Theater Research TR-2380
    Theater Research TR-2810
    Theater Research TR-5210 Professional Home Theater
    Theater Research TR-5160
    Theater Research TR-6000
    Theater Research TR-6020
    Theater Research TR-6030
    Theater Research TR-6100 Digital Sound/5.1 Home Cinema
    Theater Research TR-6120
    Theater Research TR-7010
    Theater Research TR-8010
    Theater Research TR-8810
    Theater Research Pro Series III Professional Home
    Ultra Digital Labs


    I've been involved in the audio industry for over 25 years, and have to say that these speakers have the worst components I've ever seen. As someone who has built and repaired speakers, and written published audio reviews well before the Internet came around, I am appalled at the chutzpah shown by manufacturers and sellers of this junk. The 'reviews' and 'guides' that speak positively of these things have undoubtedly been posted by those who stand to profit from the sale of these inferior items. Take the Kirsch, Theatre Research, Genesis Media Labs (Genesis PHYSICS was a good brand in the 1980's) and DiVinci speakers, with their glossy ads and websites full of meaningless techno-babble and claims of outrageous 'retail' prices - not that any reputable retailer would carry these dogs. There are good reasons why they are mostly sold out of the back of white vans, and here, where comparison to good equipment is impossible. Most recently peddlers of the Genesis Media Lab and DiVinci's have trumpeted an ad taken out by the company, and purchase of a booth at an electronics show as evidence that this is an established brand-when you have the kind of profit margins based upon $ 50 worth of components in a "$ 3600" package, I suppose you can afford a booth or an ad.

    Imagine if a peddler of fake Rolexes', or 'Rolex quality' watches posted a website claiming that their junk that cost maybe $ 50 to manufacture is worth thousands - that is basically the case we have here.

    For example, as I write this, there are at least 3 pairs of the "K803 Prodigy" speakers being posted on E Bay for $ 1500 or more, yet superior drivers (the speaker drivers -woofers, tweeters, midranges and the like) can be had for $ 15 or less per driver. The internal electronics such as the crossovers, are by far, the absolute worst I've ever seen in nearly 3 decades as a hobbyist. The DiVinci hucksters have the nerve to advertise their 'high energy crossover', which is a $2 piece of junk - a good crossover is complex, not inexpensive, and is critical to sound quality. Even the glossy cabinets are made of cheap, lightweight wood, whose resonances distort the already awful sound, and lack the internal bracing you will find on quality speakers.

    The drivers on the Kirsch and DiVinci "$ 3000 pair" (K803- DiVinci 1740-Dahlton- same speaker) are pretty much the same as on another set of these towers sold under an earlier "White Van Scam" name that a friend bought for $ 59 in a local pawn shop- one set of DiVinci's' is listed for $ 2500 buy it now - that is on line piracy.

    Just for fun, we compared these Kirsch 803 beasts' to a pair of Infinty SM-255's bought off of E Bay for $ 300, using both analogue and digital sources, receivers and high end separate electronics. A sound level meter was used to ensure that the listening occured at the same volume level.

    One of the girlfriends said it best : the Kirsch sounded like a clock radio compared to the Infinity's and one thought that a clock radio might sound better. Technical measurements confirmed what our ears told us - a ragged response curve that is the worst I've ever seen, bar none.

    Maybe it was unfair - the Infinity's weigh 77 pounds versus 28 for the Klipsch... er Kirsch - but then the Kirsch is a $ 3000 speaker, the Infinities were $ 1000 new ... the weight alone should tell you just what junk the White Van Speakers are. We also compared the Kirsch with a vintage set of Klipsch KG-3.5's which you can get for around $ 200-250 - needless to say they blew the K-803 Prodigy away.

    We've also performed listening tests comparing the "$ 2495"- oh please - Kirsch K3 home theatre system to a vintage set of Infinity Qb speakers dating back to the 1980's, which you can buy for $ 150 or so; a Samsung Home Theatre in a box and to Logitech Z-5300 and Klipsch Pro Media 5.1 computer speakers, hooked to a 5.1 receiver via the headphone jack ( a decent option for a small room). Experienced listeners suggested the best use of the Kirsch's was as a boat anchor or firewood, kids unanimously preferred the other sets and as one eloquently put it - ' the fancy ones stink like poo.' You would be much better off with a used set from Energy, Polk, or another quality speaker company.

    I also had the (dis) pleasure of listening to a set of the "$ 3600" DiVinci's often posted here - even the best electronics cannot make a silk purse out of these sow's ears. We compared the DiVinci 607 model to a Polk RM-6800 5.1 home theater set up that can be had for $ 400 or less- $3200 less than theDiVinci's so called retail value.

    It was no contest-- as my 12 year old put it 'where did all the instruments go' - there was no category- NONE- imaging, detail, tightness of bass- you name it- where the DiVinci's were remotely competitive.

    Not only are the speakers unspeakably bad, the 'receivers' included with the DiVinci, Theatre Research, Digital Research and other "White Van Brands' lack even basic AV functions such as Dolby and DTS processing, and HDMI and component video outputs -as well as measuring and sounding horribly - try watching "Master and Commander" with one of these pieces of 'bleep'- a used Denon, Yamaha or Onkyo at any price is light years superior.

    With profit margins that would make oil companies jealous, I can see where they could now buy ads in magazines - one E Bay posting claims they are an 'established high end speaker' - you would have to be high to consider these anything but the low level junk they are. Scam is not a strong enough term, and these have earned their place on rip-off report.com.

    The brand name of the speakers is often intentionally confusingly similar to a well regarded speaker manufacturer. For example, the excellent reputations of manufacturers such as Klipsch, Paradigm, Dahlquist, and Wharfedale are used to sell speakers with the respective brand names of Kirsch, Paradyme, Dahlton, and Grafdale.

    The speakers sold by the speakermen are of exceptionally poor quality, typically obtained for less than $50 from a local distributor. The speakers themselves have been reported as potentially damaging to any amplifier they are connected to. The risk of damage stems from an impedence curve that in some cases may drop below 2 ohms, which may overheat, short out, or permanently damage an amplifier not designed to handle such loads.


    FOOTNOTE: The latest White Van Scam brand is Genesis Media Labs- just took a look at 2 sets bought from a E Bay power seller who should be ashamed of themselves. The buyers thought they got a good deal and even left positive feedback for the seller. We had them listen to a Yamaha home theatre in the box bought at ... Marshalls !!! ....for less than for 1/2 ($ 250) of the price the victims paid on EBay ($ 539) for the Genesis - once again, no contest, and some very unhappy Genesis owners- too bad feedback cannot be modified. I took a couple of measurements which confirmed that regardless of the name- Genesis, DiVinci, Kirsch, Dahlton, Theatre Logic, Theatre Research, Ashton, Digital Logic, Digital Audio, Digital Dogg, Digital Research et. al - this stuff is not worthy of the term hi fidelity. The problem with the Genesis name is that there was a very good American made speaker brand of that name in the mid 80's, that went of business- the White Van scammers change brands often. New report:

    FOOTNOTE 2:

    I visted recently with an old friend, a leading British audio writer, who upon seeing the E Bay ads and the Divinci website first thought it was someones' idea of a joke -- his take in typical British understated fashion - " The claim that this logo was on half the speakers in Britian is rubbish, the products are so poor that they do not even rise to that level (rubbish), and the purveyors are simply scoundrels."
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  2. #2
    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    formerly "the city where imagination takes precedence over fact"
    Posts
    2,152
    i took a hit on a set of the acoustic response speakers about 8-10 years ago...

    typical scenario,

    got flagged down while driving down the street....



    guy was showing me all the fake lit, etc...

    talked him down to $50/pr
    (from him wanting something like $300 for what he claimed were several thousand dollar speakers)

    i still got ripped off....

    but at least it was only $50....

    i think i would have hunted him down at the time, had it been any more....
    (i was 20)

  3. #3
    Senior Member Steve Schell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    R.I.P.
    Posts
    1,458
    My white van experience did involve a sure 'nuff white van, with two guys peddling some "AR" speakers supposedly left over from a commercial installation. They were Albatross Refuse or some such brand. I was tempted to say "you guys gotta be kidding with this white van routine" but I had just walked out to my car to retrieve a tool and thought I'd better hold my tongue lest they flatten my tires or something.

    I think their game is to take advantage of a person's greed as well as his ignorance. They actually set the stage to make the mark think he's getting a deal on stolen merchandise despite the flimsy story. So, in some cases maybe the white van customers deserve what they get.

    P.S. I don't mean you, LG.

  4. #4
    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    formerly "the city where imagination takes precedence over fact"
    Posts
    2,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Schell View Post

    I think their game is to take advantage of a person's greed as well as his ignorance. They actually set the stage to make the mark think he's getting a deal on stolen merchandise despite the flimsy story. So, in some cases maybe the white van customers deserve what they get.

    P.S. I don't mean you, LG.
    but it applied....



    they gave the story of some extras loaded into the white van, and i was like...

    "well if they are hot, i'll only pay $50"

    so i guess i got what i deserved, so to speak....
    i was 20....



    I still remember the parking lot i pulled into to get them....

    thought i had done so well.....


  5. #5
    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    in "managed decline"
    Posts
    10,054
    they even have the list price printed on the "white van's white box" - must be a deal



    DOGG DIGITAL AUDIO 2000 SPEAKERS - $500

    Reply to: see below
    Date: 2007-10-30, 10:52AM PDT


    DOGG DIGITAL AUDIO SPEAKERS FOR SALE

    THREE-WAY LOUD SPEAKERS
    CLUB SERIES II PROFESSIONAL


    * Optimal Horns
    * Large magnet structure
    * 1/4 phone input jacks
    * 10-500 watts
    * 8 ohms
    * 99 DB

    These speakers retail for 1449.00. I am letting them go for 500.00


    They are brand new and in the box.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  6. #6
    Senior Member brutal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Parker, CO
    Posts
    1,051
    There's usually a local CL user in every major metro that will post the scam info repeatedly. When you see these scam ads on CL, whether intentional or some poor schmuck trying to unload his garbage on the unsuspecting, flag them. Enough flags and they're gone.

    It's a constant battle. The scammers will, en mass, flag the whistle blower's posts, all of us that know better flag the scammers...


  7. #7
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    953
    Genesis name is that there was a very good American made speaker brand of that name in the mid 80's, that went of business-

    There is still a manufacturer called Genesis with a very good reputation. Design by the old "Mr Infinity"
    http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/index.html


    I'm glad we dont have similar situations in Norway. There are a couple of brands that is completely rubish here to, but the retail for very small amounts. Still not worth it IMO.


    -Tim



    Edit: Is it the actual speakers on the websites you link that they sell, or are they cheap copies?
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    2,291
    I don't know if the scammers that hit me up had a white van, but they tried to say they had Nikon cameras. I was fueling up around Carlisle PA.
    They were going from rig to rig right in the fuel lanes. Tried to tell me they were new in the box and were worth $1200 but I can have them for $200 each. I was not intrested but thought I would like to see the item out of curiosity

    What they showed me was a total peice of plastic crap with the nikon name that was a sticker applied crooked above the lens. I have to admit I got a good laugh out of the encounter.

  9. #9
    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    in "managed decline"
    Posts
    10,054

    from CL

    Kirsch Speakers-

    Reply to: [email protected]
    Date: 2007-12-14, 10:47AM PST


    Yes, my husband was scamed in the parking lot over at 24 hours fitness in Orchards. He was told that they are worth $3000 and the man said that he needed the money for his family. My husband has a very giving heart, he purshased them for $300.00 for 2. He thought he was helping someone out that was in need. Now we need the money for Christmas and am willing to take anything for these speakers to get them off our hands. They are still in the box. I'm not trying to scam anyone just trying to get a few dollars back. They do work just not $3000 sound, maybe a $200 sound.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Tom Brennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Wheaton Illinois
    Posts
    663
    I don't think these white van guys are any worse than so called "high end" guys who put a couple of Madisound catalog drivers in a monkey coffin and charge several thousand dollars for the result.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Ct.
    Posts
    299
    MONKEY COFFIN!!!...sorry, PETA, that's funny right there.......

  12. #12
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Mass
    Posts
    900
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Brennan View Post
    I don't think these white van guys are any worse than so called "high end" guys who put a couple of Madisound catalog drivers in a monkey coffin and charge several thousand dollars for the result.
    Or the cable and wire guys either. Tell me again why I need a $200 (or $2000) power cable for my amp ? Does that make the $.50/ft power wiring in my house somehow work better ? Will $1000 silver interconnects make my components sound better when I can open them up and clearly see inexpensive copper wiring going to the jacks ?

    Unfortunately there's a lot of people overcharging (and overpaying) at both ends of the spectrum...

    jblnut

  13. #13
    Senior Member Tom Brennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Wheaton Illinois
    Posts
    663
    Quote Originally Posted by jblnut View Post
    Or the cable and wire guys either. Tell me again why I need a $200 (or $2000) power cable for my amp ? Does that make the $.50/ft power wiring in my house somehow work better ? Will $1000 silver interconnects make my components sound better when I can open them up and clearly see inexpensive copper wiring going to the jacks ?

    jblnut

    "interconnects".

    Part of the scam was getting people to call something simple and workwise (patch cords) by a new and more grand sounding (pretentious) term, then they're halfway there; by redefining what something is it's easier to charge more money for it.

    If patch cords, speaker wires and power cords were that big a deal one must wonder how such simple things got by Olson and the other old-timers.

  14. #14
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,734
    I've been accosted by those guys a couple of times in a small shopping center parking lot on the other side of town. I believe that when they let on they are doing something behind their boss's back--implying they are selling stolen merchandise even though it is not--they move from misrepresentation to actually breaking the law in California. So, if you feel like going through the hassel . . . .

    David

  15. #15
    Junior Member alotawatts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    I've been accosted by those guys a couple of times in a small shopping center parking lot on the other side of town. I believe that when they let on they are doing something behind their boss's back--implying they are selling stolen merchandise even though it is not--they move from misrepresentation to actually breaking the law in California. So, if you feel like going through the hassel . . . .

    David
    Exact scenario my son 'Bit' on a few years ago. He bought two sets of Theater Research Surround O'Majic crap systems for $300. I never gave him a bad time about it because it was about a month of wages for him at the time.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Interesting Article on Harman's Northridge R&D
    By Don McRitchie in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-30-2008, 11:14 AM
  2. Interesting Article on Speaker Placement.
    By JSF13 in forum General Audio Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-22-2007, 09:32 AM
  3. The iPod's Incredible Journey (very interesting article)
    By SEAWOLF97 in forum General Audio Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-06-2006, 10:36 PM
  4. Link to interesting article on bass reproduction
    By mikebake in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-14-2003, 06:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •