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Thread: GOD , i`m so excited.

  1. #1
    Junior Member sahinderya's Avatar
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    GOD , i`m so excited.

    Please tell me about the current situation of project may, friends.
    I couldnt able to find any info about participants work or any design work around the site?
    I got some serious contribution to make to serious people on this.

    Thank you
    Sahin

    info@handmadehifi.com

  2. #2
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  3. #3
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    What ?

    Great , my speakers match the carpet and the drapes. Nope, for me new K2......Maybe for my Hendrix only speakers though !

  4. #4
    Senior Member brutal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    Great , my speakers match the carpet and the drapes. Nope, for me new K2......Maybe for my Hendrix only speakers though !
    Carpet? More like Turkish rug match.


  5. #5
    Junior Member sahinderya's Avatar
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    i`m new and too late please read

    i`ve sent some ideas here and there,
    and as I can see there not much I can do but I`ll still have some modifications to offer anyway.

    -as I can see there is no wish to use HDF instead of MDF , which hdf is far more superior to it. Especially on the front baffle more than 1 inch would be best. A the bottom picture you can see my idea coming out of M-1 Abrams` chobham ceramic armour. Which is developed for projectiles, putting ceramic tiles on the inner surface makes the cabinet extremely rigid, and very cheap. On top of these I put some oak or pine pyramids glued. This gives them a very unstable acoustical image and breaks up the inner reflections very highly , another cheap thing but time consuming thing for me. If these pyramid can be made out of single odd shaped tile of wood, they can be glued right on the ceramics. This procedure even reduces the needed inner bracing (which is air flow preventing a bit).

    -Please go for sealed or at least supply some plug for the woofers. These are marvelous and venting must be killing their characteristics.

    -The woofer should be placed or should I say pushed from behind through their bottoms forwards with some mdf or hdf parts, this connection with the cabinet makes woofer far more harder to excite on the deep notes and makes the basket very rigid. The contact point must be hard and glued something like epoxy or similar strong vibration proof chemical.

    -Inner cabling is as I perform can be go through elastic aluminum woven water pipes , these little things can be attached to one another for longer lengths.
    You can see them in use at upper picture , coming out of crossover boxes, I put some glue in them to stay in shape forever after drying. Thus wire is bone hard always in cabinet.

    -I dont understand why the back wall is still exactly parallel with the front baffle? It can stay like that but can we put some diffraction creating 2 long bars of wood in shape of a tent (I couldnt tell this otherwise). This will break the inner side in two for a very good reason.

    -I put another picture for burying the crossover in simple tar (its heat can destroy everything) , as an alternative I use some mixed heavy epoxy, but the tar is always the best.I saw this is done in some very old tubed radios.

    I dont know, lets talk anyways.
    Thank you
    Sahin
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  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Some Interesting Ideas...

    Here are comments on a couple of your suggestions. Rather than focusing on Project May I think we should consider them in regards to any speaker design.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahinderya View Post
    -as I can see there is no wish to use HDF instead of MDF , which hdf is far more superior to it....
    I wouldn't agree that high density fiber board is inherently superior... it certainly can be in certain applications with the correct damping material added, but realize as a panel's mass increases if all other properties remain the same the amount of damping material that will be required to control resonances will also increase.

    My preferred method of construction is to line the box with MDF as it is inherently self damping and brace it and encapsulate it in a very rigid frame of birch plywood. See this thread: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=9812


    Quote Originally Posted by sahinderya View Post
    -Please go for sealed or at least supply some plug for the woofers. These are marvelous and venting must be killing their characteristics.
    Most JBL woofers sound better and behave better in vented alignments. In the case of the 1500AL we did test them and listen to them in both sealed and vented configurations... they were definitely better in a vented alignment. It is a common "audiophile" notion that sealed woofers and first order crossovers are always superior solutions... sometimes they are and sometimes they are not.


    Quote Originally Posted by sahinderya View Post
    -The woofer should be placed or should I say pushed from behind through their bottoms forwards with some mdf or hdf parts, this connection with the cabinet makes woofer far more harder to excite on the deep notes and makes the basket very rigid. The contact point must be hard and glued something like epoxy or similar strong vibration proof chemical.
    This idea may make sense for a lightweight stamped frame woofer, but for a massive and extremely rigid woofer like the 1500AL and most other JBL woofers, I think the preferred arrangement would be an attempt to isolate the woofer from the cabinet not couple it... the cabinet will always resonate... coupling the woofer as described will likely add even more coloration... It would be interesting to take this concept further than simple speculation though, as it should be easy to test by making an impedance measurement comparing the two approaches.


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  7. #7
    Junior Member sahinderya's Avatar
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    wow

    that is sooo negative ,
    i can understand that you dont want me to mess with a 3 year old design but,
    -check out avalon for hdf, or rockport for rigidity issues, everyone is trying to make the cabinets more rigid but you dont. interesting.
    -rigidity doesnt offer any new resonances, buy an accelerometer please, the more rigid it gets, resonances occur in lower hertzs. Thus they are more inaudible.
    -Even midrange drivers (which are far more less vibrating than woofers) benefit from back support. Check out the linkwitz site please. You cant stop a woofer from vibrating with a chasis , even stamped or not, those lower octaves can even shake your sofa, or wardrobe, or even your walls at high levels. We even can make a fork like support to final mid/hi array from back.
    -And the vertical coil alignment , after 3 years I can understand it must be hard to feel the energy to change it, but you can push the mid a bit back to woofer line, and make a bigger deeper horn (please not made out of mdf, i can see it is easy to use it on cnc) with some heavy material , like a rubber-plastic mix to a mold, we dont try to make it easy, these production issues can be solved easily when it comes down to mass production.
    And please bury the super t in this big horn , much closer to its throat, this make time-phase much better.
    -And yes , 1st order crossovers are the best in phase and realism,especially butterworths, blind tests must be made with 10 or more people not with 2. When you vent a cabinet , you will be gaining a very late time response from the backwall , not a simple reflection from the cabinet. The final product must be as much as room placement free I think. If the vent is a necessity maybe we can place it on bottom and leave the top woofer sealed , a hybrid model?
    -Your resistors coils and caps are or middle-to-high category, please use mundorf supremes or listen to them, when coils are goertz coppers, skin effect is history. And go for vishay mil specs , alu body models , they are the best in resistors. Both in vibration and sonic characteristics. I do believe in cables sound very different, and the best I heard is Van den Hul`s Breeze Hybrid, this is insanely expensive , but maybe a lower silver type can be of use? I still dont know the final product`s end user target price.
    -I dont understand the bi-wire need, and probably never will understand.
    But please use wtbs , maybe silver ones.
    -The main goal can be over 100db in sensitivity with multiple woofers, which will put the final product in another league amongst competitors.
    -And if you try the tiles solution, apply some soft silicone/glue mix to attach them. They like that.
    -If I `m excited too much , I think thats goood!

  8. #8
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sahinderya View Post
    that is sooo negative ,
    I didn't mean to come off negatively... I was merely commenting on some of your suggestions. I didn't comment on the tile concept as I have no experience with adding bits of hard reflective material to the inside of a cabinet... it may be brilliant. I have no idea... I didn't comment on putting a wedge in the back of a cabinet, though I have done that sort of thing in the past and do believe it can be a good thing in certain cases. Unfortunately building in a wedge or other non parallel rear surface also takes up volume and most of the time we are trying to keep volume down to a minimum.

    As for your clamping the woofer frame in the cabinet comment... I didn't say you were wrong. I said that I thought that you were wrong and that it should be easy to test the concept rather than sitting around speculating on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahinderya View Post
    i can understand that you dont want me to mess with a 3 year old design but,
    In my own projects I tend to continue messing around with them for years until I think I've made the best set of compromises for the design... in the case of Project May, I've run out of time that I can dedicate to that project and any further development is in the hands of others. That said, the "client", Don McRitchie, has chosen the design he wants and so that is it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahinderya View Post

    -I dont understand the bi-wire need, and probably never will understand.
    We certainly agree there... I think that far too many of the typical audiophile notions are just plain silly... however, I also think there are times when even something as silly as bi-wiring might actually do some good... and then there is the psychological side of this whole thing. I find the placebo effect in audio to be an area of great interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahinderya View Post
    -If I `m excited too much , I think thats goood!
    Nothing wrong with getting excited about speaker design... I've been doing this since the middle '70s and I still get goose bumps.


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  9. #9
    Junior Member sahinderya's Avatar
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    As for the front baffle, can we put the woofers on a cylinder like shapes.
    maybe 3 cm in length. This will reduce the baffle issue largely. Rest of the baffle can stay the same, but this forward outgrowth (overhang) will be good.
    Cnc can easily dig the shape out of mdf or hdf?
    I wish I can draw it on cad, may be I can draw it on paper and scan it for you guys.

    I think the color and dark lines on the sides, give the design a bit JMlab look.
    I wish it was all out of most noble color ; black .
    Maybe you guys check the 3m info on my site, Jbl may want to offer this product with any kind of graphical options. Maybe may himself, or user selectable?


    http://www.handmadehifi.com/3mfinish.html

  10. #10
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Sahinderya,

    I went through your website, I agree with some of the things you say.

    I REALLY like that Gomalak Lacquer finish! Very sharp and elegant.

    REAL handbuilt craftsmanship.

    scottyj

  11. #11
    JBL 4645
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    No way would I desecrate my JBL in those wild colours.

    sahinderya

    Welocme

    Find the right fitting of the loudspeakers for the enclosure and use an electronic crossover network like the DCX2496 from Behringer, it’s got an assorted use of Butterworth Bessel and Linkwitz-Riley to choose from.

  12. #12
    Junior Member sahinderya's Avatar
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    thank you friends for all the comments on my site, but lets discuss the May here, what do you say to this lego teeth like woofer mounting?
    When woofer comes a bit forward, we can hide the shape under some speaker cloth on all sides?

    Also do you have any suggestions about the inner cabling?

  13. #13
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    About BiWire.....without it you can't Biamp
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  14. #14
    Junior Member sahinderya's Avatar
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    I wanted to make it a bit taller and slender, and inserted some art-deco iron bars and furniture like feet (what i draw looks like something more devilish though) , I`ve always wanted good iron feet like old retro furniture or cabinets, but never saw on hi-fi gear, maybe it suit our project and make it look more interesting and sturdy.
    I couldnt draw the angled view of woofer detail for the forward mounting, the one on the right top is view from above maybe that`ll help.
    Underneath is mid section with reduced baffle.
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  15. #15
    Junior Member sahinderya's Avatar
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    for the iron parts, nickel plated shining finish can be very catchy,
    and this will make a total contrast with the all black gloss paint I suggested ,the rings around forward mounted woofers will look also very cool? (and the retro furniture like feet too) . I never saw anything like this?

    I thought about Mr. May`s relief , 2 per speaker, 4 in total , maybe we can cast them with some molds, the computer operated cnc mold makers can easily dig the picture out of any material, after the mold has been made, polyol based elastic materials (like polyurethane elastomers ;this is also my preference in horn body materials final surface) can be used for this ,which will give them a dark opaque gray/black tone, and a new non-resonant other layer can be easily added to sides without much nonsense thickness, and a gain will be added in vibration isolation.
    Also making the cabinet detached from one other, and putting the crossovers in mid cabinet will also reduce all the harm, maybe as I drew the lower woofer cabinet can be ported, and upper one be sealed? A hybrid alignment will make the upper low-to-mid characteristic better I think.
    Lowest octave will came out of port from the bottom woofer, and sealed character of upper woofer will make the transition far more seamless/neutral.
    Making the cabinet slender rather than fat and low make the lowest octave gain more audible, think it like a flute. I wish i could actually listen and measure the drivers, than I can maybe more helpful in terms of electronics.

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