new loudspeaker cable

[Steve Schell]

Thanks to Clark in Peoria for quoting me back on page two. I missed this thread back then.

I'm still using the 26 gauge magnet wire, only now I'm twisting it in a drill and putting it in a woven jacket so that it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb when we exhibit our horn speakers at trade shows.

I tend to look at it this way... when using a tube amplifier, the output transformer secondary contains many yards of fine wire. Then the signal travels through a few feet of speaker cable, where it makes its way to the voice coil(s), which are made from several yards of very fine wire. Is it really necessary or desirable for the middle (and possibly shortest) link in this chain to have 20 or 100 or 500 times the cross sectional area of the other two links? What if one had lengths of copper rod three feet in diameter for speaker cables? I understand the argument about lower resistive losses, but at what point to those poor electrons become misdirected and confused?

Also, if fine gauge magnet wire was the best you could have (though I'm not saying it is), who would tell you? Certainly not the people who sell speaker cables! With careful shopping it can be had for $10 per mile or less, and there's not much profit in selling 12' cables at that rate.

Years ago I lived in a single wide mobile home (okay, trailer) that was built during the period when the code allowed the use of aluminum wire. Every screw in every outlet was loose by at least a half turn, and some connections looked a bit scorched. Dangerous!

[Mr. Widget]

I'm still using the 26 gauge magnet wire...

Probably nothing wrong with that in short runs... for a time CAT5e was the rage and it is 24 ga.

I understand the argument about lower resistive losses, but at what point to those poor electrons become misdirected and confused?

Now this is a joke right?


Widget

[Doctor_Electron]

After trying / using all manner of cable, my preference is #12 or #14 NMB, copper ("Romex"). I remove the bare ground conductor.
My 4310 & 4410 pairs are in nearfield setups with a Sansui AU-7700 integrated amp on one set and a Sansui 3300 receiver on the other. The electronics are situated between each pair, and the cables do not exceed 4' in length each. This certainly must help minimize any [possible?] cable deficiencies.
But even if they were a lot longer I would use the same cable.
BTW, I have spent MANY hours evaluating speaker cables, and [ I think ] what I use sounds best. Therefore it does, [ I think ]!

[Doctor_Electron]

QUOTE: "That XP has a Magnetic Flux Tube running down the center, suppose to improve the highs, ya right!"

Flux That!

I've always wanted to up-convert the audio signal to the visible light spectrum and transmit it via laser, in an attempt to make the soundstage "more coherent"

This way, I could also use magic crystals to fine tune the results.

I've also heard that rubbing your speaker cables with snake oil will help improve
the sound.

[hjames]

Interesting - someone sent me the link on this thread - I made up some 18 gauge magnet wire for some tests I'll be doing shortly. cut 4 25' length off a 100' spool,
chucked it in the B& D cordless drill, then spun them down ... $8 for a 100' spool via Amazon ... certainly worth the text.

Used the fluke to confirm there are no shorts and to tone out the matching (sharpie marked) Neg lines in each pair.
'cause Polarity Lines Matter.

Got to scrape the enamel off the ends & maybe get a chance to test after work tomorrow or over the weekend.

Thanks to Clark in Peoria for quoting me back on page two. I missed this thread back then.

I'm still using the 26 gauge magnet wire, only now I'm twisting it in a drill and putting it in a woven jacket so that it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb when we exhibit our horn speakers at trade shows.

I tend to look at it this way... when using a tube amplifier, the output transformer secondary contains many yards of fine wire. Then the signal travels through a few feet of speaker cable, where it makes its way to the voice coil(s), which are made from several yards of very fine wire. Is it really necessary or desirable for the middle (and possibly shortest) link in this chain to have 20 or 100 or 500 times the cross sectional area of the other two links? What if one had lengths of copper rod three feet in diameter for speaker cables? I understand the argument about lower resistive losses, but at what point to those poor electrons become misdirected and confused?

Also, if fine gauge magnet wire was the best you could have (though I'm not saying it is), who would tell you? Certainly not the people who sell speaker cables! With careful shopping it can be had for $10 per mile or less, and there's not much profit in selling 12' cables at that rate.

Years ago I lived in a single wide mobile home (okay, trailer) that was built during the period when the code allowed the use of aluminum wire. Every screw in every outlet was loose by at least a half turn, and some connections looked a bit scorched. Dangerous!

[SEAWOLF97]

Back in '72 when I had a mail order Pioneer system from PACEX , but DIDN't have 2 nickles to rub together,
speaker cable was low on my priority list.

I did locate some 4 wire (solid) telephone cable. In desperation I wired 2 to 1 for the L and same for the right. This stuff is pretty thin (28g ?) , but solid. don't know what the effective gauge was. but it sounded very good.

wouldn't hesitate to do it again. ( I think)

[Steve Schell]

It is fun to see this thread crop up again. I am still using twisted 26 gauge magnet wire with great results. The old attitude was to match impedances rather than seek MONSTER low impedance, high damping factor amps to drive loudspeakers. A single ended triode amp combined with a couple ohms of cable resistance sounds great with strong magnet speakers.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think the output impedance of a SE or even a PP valve amp makes the drc of the cable moot.

What matters (hurts the signal at the speaker end) is the inductance and capacitance of the speak cable.

That can impact audibly on the frequency response amplitude of the signal.

We know in the case of a RIAA phone pre amp that 0.5 db -+ variation is quite audible in the context of 20~20,000 hertz so it is not surprising if the impact of the former is audible.

In the case of SS amps they generally have a low output impeciance at low frequencies only and this is a function of feedback around the output stage and global feedback with the input.

Depending on design the inductance and capacitance of the cable enters the feedback loop of the amp and because the feedback is frequency dependant it can impact on the transient behaviour of the amp.

If you are in a position to modify the feedback of a SS amp the impact can be audible. (This is in part why not all Ss amp have the same sonic signature).

The best cable is therefore a short stout cable.

One could therefore deduce that a python size cable from a snake oil merchant (bigger is better) with excessive inductance and capacitance is exactly the wrong thing to use.

But because the subjective nature of listening is heavily influenced by visual imagery (after Floyd) and we see it so must sound different, err better. The badly designed cable is in fact technically a negative impact.

But how does the native audiophile know when a cable is impacting from the visual influence or for technical reasons?

The don't and this is how the sharks in the audiophile cable business stay in business.

I have no doubt the high end audiophile fraternity would hate this post but fortunately as a luxury goods industry is always experienced zero growth compared to other luxury goods industries.

[Mr. Widget]

...and how the sharks in the audiophile cable business stay in business.

They are not just staying in business but doing disturbingly well. As far as gullible consumers go, I guess snake oil has been around as long as there have been snakes.


Widget

[Wagner]

I am NOT a fan of "6 Moons" at all, BUT I did try a set of these a while back (there are many stories about this DIY project on the internet)

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=80433
http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/C...13/136694.html

I needed some fairly long runs and wasn't going to spend a fortune so I gave this a try (it was the weekend, so no Mogami order was possible)
Results? They make for a very very good "sounding" speaker wire
When I put them in my system (a pair of L55s I had just restored for a client at the time) things did sound much better than whatever it was I had in there at the time

Thinking it might just be a new caps and foam anomaly I tried them again and again with numerous other combos
They ARE a good speaker cable for what ever the reason (other folks could hear it too, including the guy buying the L55s) He was also auditioning a pair of L112s, which he also bought, so no, he wasn't hearing impaired

Can't find it now, but it appears that Wal-Mart or "Yard Master" or whoever sourced this wire from various suppliers; the one you want are the ones labelled "made in china"
I think a bunch of this cheap wire is coming out of the Philippines now and the DIY crowd say it just ain't the same

Either way, I bought 80' of wire for $14 dollars and change and it sounds great (pretty flexible and easy to terminate too)

[Steve Schell]

Hey Ian, how ya doin? In my early days of using fine magnet wire as speaker cable, I attached the #26 to the ceiling with transparent tape, keeping the parallel runs an inch or so apart. It is actually a hip way to do dress cables as they are not underfoot. This would probably be considerably lower in both inductance and capacitance than the tightly twisted runs I have used in recent years. Never did make a direct comparison sonically, but maybe I should!

At trade shows we eventually learned to put our speaker wires in black woven nylon jacketing to achieve the "audiophile approved" look. This way listeners could focus on the sound and not the highly unconventional wire.

I used to joke online that with careful shopping an audiophile could keep his cable costs under $5 per mile. Guess copper prices are a bit higher now but still... if thin copper were the best who would tell you? Certainly not the cable sellers!

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Steve,

I previously made up some CAT 9 with individual twisted insulated conductors like a poor mans Kimber cable.

I also convinced myself that the steel bolt terminations of all of JBL crossovers were worthy of replacing with gold plated binding posts.

Bi wired from the amp to the mid horn section of my dig 4345s l convinced myself is was worthwhile.

Another idea us to pull the inner core out of a coaxial cable or wrap strands around a non conducting core.

[Wagner]

I also convinced myself that the steel bolt terminations of all of JBL crossovers were worthy of replacing with gold plated binding posts.

Copper is a better conductor than any of them with the exception of silver, and not unlike silver, more subject to corrosion (versus gold)

Gold plated conductors and terminals of unknown provenance is one of the biggest scams going, especially with product coming out of third world asian factories (and sometimes I even doubt the "gold" plating is actually gold to begin with)

For the best electrical connections that are practically possible (and assuming routine maintenance and treatment is part of your equipment maintenance routine) pure copper is the way to go
Silver has the highest electrical conductivity of all metals. In fact, silver defines conductivity - all other metals are compared against it. On a scale of 0 to 100, silver ranks 100, with copper at 97 and gold at 76.

http://eddy-current.com/conductivity...y-resistivity/

International Annealed Copper Standard, a unit of electrical conductivity for metals and alloys relative to a standard annealed copper conductor; an IACS value of 100% refers to a conductivity of 5.80 × 10⁷ siemens per meter (58.0 MS/m) at 20 °C.

Clean copper connections are superior to gold, the operative word here being CLEAN. Gold plating of connectors is hype and a way for manufacturer's to deal with poor end user maintenance and to give reason to jack up the price of workaday wires.

The conductivity of any given cable is only as good as the martial UNDERNEATH the termination's plating; in other words you can gold plat shit metals and alloys and that's all you still have: shit

[BMWCCA]

Here's a shot of my 6Moons White Lightning cables terminated in my favorite Neutrik dual-bananas:

[Odd]

Here's a shot of my 6Moons White Lightning cables terminated in my favorite Neutrik dual-bananas:

Do not use this in Europe, they fit perfectly in 230v wall outlet.