Using 808-8As or 8Bs in Altec Valenica's

[diamondsouled]

"Yes, and a substantially different dispersion pattern as result"

Guess I'm going to have to keep an eye out for some 077s so I can do an A/B.

How about the 077s compared to their newer version the 2405? Which is superior?

Also I don't remember you're saying Ziltch if you preferred the BMS 4550 or the 4552. I'm giving some serious thought about trying out a pair in my Valencia's.

Thanks

Lar

[Zilch]

077 and 2405 are the same, performance-wise.

I prefer the BMS 4552 to 4550; I believe I can hear a difference, more clarity in the upper midrange, but the difference is subtle. Is it worth $30 apiece more? :dont-know

[diamondsouled]

Still, for under $150 ea. the 4552 is a good deal. German's design and manufacture quality equipment in my experience. I have a Uher Royal Deluxe RTR that is over 30 years old and it is still going strong.

I can't remember, did you put together a new design for a complete network to use with the Valencias and the BMS drivers or did you do a redesign of the original and or the Model19?

Lar

[Zilch]

It's a simple compensation network added on after the Valencia crossover, documented in the thread. That was my assignment. I also used the BMS with the M19 crossover, and that worked, too, though the control settings were different.

Others are working on more comprehensive filter redesigns for Valencia and similarly configured Altec two-ways.

It's a slightly different network for 846A (16 Ohms) versus 846B (8 Ohms), and you must order the correct impedance BMS drivers.

Just using the BMS with the stock crossover alone is itself an improvement with respect to HF extension, but the midrange is still too "forward."

The point of using the BMS is not to have to add a tweeter, which has its own set of problems, as documented in the thread....

[jackgiff]

Also I don't remember you're saying Ziltch if you preferred the BMS 4550 or the 4552. I'm giving some serious thought about trying out a pair in my Valencia's.

Thanks

Lar

Hi Lar.

I ended up with two pairs of Valencias, each of which has a pair of the two BMS drivers mentioned. Zilch can hear a difference, but I really can't. However, either pair is totally different than standard, and much improved and I sold the two pairs of 806A's for more than the cost of the BMS drivers. No going back for this kid.

[diamondsouled]

Hi Jack, thanks Ziltch,

Ziltch: Where will the more comprehensive filter redesigns be posted when they're done? Will they be for use with the BMS drivers?

Jack: I was thinking a person could probably get more for their used 806-A's than the cost of the new BMS drivers. Sounds funny but it's true. Where did you pick up your RTA up at? Been thinking it's about time I got one.

Thanks

Lar

[Zilch]

Ziltch: Where will the more comprehensive filter redesigns be posted when they're done? Will they be for use with the BMS drivers?

Yes, BMS drivers on 811B horns. I will encourage them to post their work here, but I believe they've already said they would....

Hi, Jack!

[SMKSoundPro]

Hi Jack, ditto!

Scotty.

Lars: Remember to keep it simple.

[jackgiff]

Hi Jack, thanks Ziltch,

Jack: I was thinking a person could probably get more for their used 806-A's than the cost of the new BMS drivers. Sounds funny but it's true. Where did you pick up your RTA up at? Been thinking it's about time I got one.

Thanks

Lar

I bought mine from an E-Bay dealer somewhere in the South. Can't remember their name, but they are available pretty much everywhere. Measuring things really makes developing a speaker more exciting. I built a pair of speakers for some friends a few years ago which use Trusonic 120FR's and tweeters. I bought crossovers from Parts express which were high pass 5 KHz only. They sounded damn good at the time. Now that I have the ability to measure response, I borrowed them back for a week while Ben and Jane were in Mexico. Seems the tweeters needed to be reversed, and the woofers needed a cutoff at 5 Khz as well. After they got home, they can't believe the difference in sound. Now they sound like they should have originally. It really makes a big difference being able to measure things, as well as just listening to them. I wouldn't want to build another pair without being able to measure their response. Some people can tell just by listening, but even though the ones I built were so close, they are now just supreme. I would hate to give up my RTA.

Hi Zilch and Scott. Good to hear from you both again. Can't wait till the next thread about developing some great sound.

[garyl]

One question I have always had for those with the equipment to do all the testing. Does it ever stop?

By this I mean, can you ever really be satisfied that a particular speaker is just "Good Enough" and be happy with what you did and how it sounds?

I have friends who are complete gear heads and think nothing of spending thousands to get another few HP out of an engine that is already producing way more then ever intended. Other friends who are complete geeks who tweek their computers to break neck speeds and capacities no normal individual could ever need.

Am I wrong to think the test equipment is capeable of telling 99% of us what our ears can't even come close to hearing?????

I have this vision of the mad scientist never ever being happy until he finds absolute perfection by some unrealistic standard!

Please don't get me wrong here. It is great to know your equipment is performing properly yet I can still be quite happy if my speakers sound pretty good to me.

From what is advertised, shouldn't we all just have Bose?

Gary

[diamondsouled]

Speaking for myself I think that I would only use an RTA if I was wanting to confirm what my ears tell me, or if I was setting up Pro Gear in a variety of venues. A loud speaker management unit would come in real handy in that case. If I were to buy an RTA or loud speaker management unit and use it at home I would check to see if I had things phased and time aligned properly. Like Jack noted it was only when he checked the speakers that he had built for his friend that he caught the fact that the tweeter were out of phase.

If a person was putting together many DIY speakers and crossovers projects this sort of RTA unit would soon become indispensible.

Lar

[hjames]

I bought mine from an E-Bay dealer somewhere in the South. Can't remember their name, but they are available pretty much everywhere. Measuring things really makes developing a speaker more exciting.

I wouldn't want to build another pair without being able to measure their response. Some people can tell just by listening, but even though the ones I built were so close, they are now just supreme. I would hate to give up my RTA.

Can you give us specifics about what RTA you got?
What features convinced you that was the one to get?
(Seems to be a lot of possibilities when looking at that field)

Thanks Jack!

[4313B]

One question I have always had for those with the equipment to do all the testing. Does it ever stop?

Not for some people. It seems to be kind of an addiction like anything else. I suppose eventually they will burn out and find something else to obsess over but who knows. If they receive positive encouragement to continue their addiction then there probably isn't an end in sight.

By this I mean, can you ever really be satisfied that a particular speaker is just "Good Enough" and be happy with what you did and how it sounds?

From observation I don't really think that is what they are after. It's more the thrill of running curves and blogging than actually coming up with a fully functional loudspeaker system that will appeal to alot of people. If there wasn't a forum for them to interact with they would most likely find something else to do with their day.

I have friends who are complete gear heads and think nothing of spending thousands to get another few HP out of an engine that is already producing way more then ever intended. Other friends who are complete geeks who tweek their computers to break neck speeds and capacities no normal individual could ever need.

Right, meanwhile you just use your car or computer as another tool in your life without the obsessive behavior. We all have to fill our days somehow. Some people like to run curve after curve and blog about it. It takes all kinds to fill the freeways. I certainly put a few years in trying to squeeze every last get up and go out of small and big block Chevy's simply because it was fun. Then I realized what a waste of time and money it was and moved on.

Am I wrong to think the test equipment is capeable of telling 99% of us what our ears can't even come close to hearing?????

We have a few forum members who are well versed in measurements - They are professionals. Perhaps they can post about proper measurement techniques and why we do it if they have the time and are so inclined.

I have this vision of the mad scientist never ever being happy until he finds absolute perfection by some unrealistic standard!

Some DIY folks seem that way. I wouldn't let it bother me if I were you.

Some of the professional guys who design and build the best loudspeaker systems are actually quite normal and are definitely aware of their own "successes" and "failures" with respect to various system designs. They are thoroughly aware of the product lifecycle from start to finish. Some have designed systems that many people really liked but that they personally didn't like at all. Go figure.

I can still be quite happy if my speakers sound pretty good to me.

That is the end goal of most people. They buy what they prefer and they end up being content with their decision.

From what is advertised, shouldn't we all just have Bose?

I would say that's probably true for most people.

[garyl]