This thread is an excellent example of why hi-fi will die along with the old men.
I bought these things for $78 for the pair. I couldn't find anything on the web about them and the seller didn't have them disassembled so that one could the guts like we can here. I bought them knowing that they won't sound as good as the 2405s going on eBay for $350, but I'd never listened to a slot loaded driver before and I wanted to try it out cheaply first. I also knew that could probably unload them for what I paid and even it I couldn't, I had a lot of fun (remember what fun is?) messing with these while making comparisons with other vintage tweeters that I have.
I will eventually buy a pair of 2505s some day. I simply asked in my opening question, "does anyone know something about this driver?" I was actually trying to learn something. Sheeeesh!.
Actually, I more than understand that! However, you asked a question, you got answers, the answers you get here are the answers people really feel and believe.
Then, you asked again, what do you really think?
I really told you what I thought. I actually gave you an economical alternative to your situation! Beyma tweeters. At $139 and change, they are actually well made, and sound pretty good. In all honesty, and with no nastiness, the Beyma tweeters are better made and sound better than your Acoustician tweeters. I know this because I have heard them. Many dance club systems use Beyma tweeters these days BECAUSE JBL no longer makes their tweeters.
You saw the pictures of what you have? The manufacturing tolerances are pretty bad, and the reason JBL or any good device works as well as they do has EVERYTHING to do with being well made, and precision machined parts to tight tolerances. In this case, lets say you have to spend $100ea per JBL diaphragm or more, your actually better off buying the Beymas! No nastiness, its just simple truth and its logical.
You also have one person in this thread that has the same tweeters you have, and he told you they didnt sound good when he got them!
Yeah, you can save up some bucks for used 2405,s that you may find on ebay, and thats just as much of a gamble too! Ask members how many times items arrive not quite as described? I know a guy who got a pair of 2403 cats eye tweeters, working condition off ebay, alnico magnets and all! Problem? When he got them, the diaphragms were blown! Thats ebay for you.
Or you get a pair that works good, but are cosmetically challenged! Can you be happy looking at tweeters that work OK, but dont look good? I couldnt!
Of course, if you want to buy new, and something that will cost you some money, but have a good reputation for sonic excellence, you can always look at Fostex tweeters! www.madisound.com sells a wide variety of Fostex tweeters, ranging from economical to VERY expensive!
Again, you asked for answers, we gave them to you. Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is you probably can fit JBL 2405 diaphragms into those Acoustician tweeters, and this does not mean they will perform like a real JBL, at all.
So, thats whats up. IMHO, at $78.00ea, it was still a waste of $156.00 + shipping.
BTW, Im 45 SO I dont think I am an OLD man. But, I do run a pretty big sound system, complete with JBL tweeters of the 2402 and 2404 variety.
You aksed, we answered.
scottyj
Hi witoman,
Originally Posted by witoman, 9/21/06Originally Posted by witoman, 9/29/06Originally Posted by witoman, 9/29/06
- Are the above quotes relevant &/or topical to this discussion ?
- You haven't stated whether or not you bought your 2405 wannabes with working diaphragms in them / did you ?
- If they work, what do you think about them ?
- Have you had a chance to measure their frequency response ?
- You'd need to own something like TrueAudios', TrueRTA to get some reasonable measurements ;
- It'll generate enough FR info ( of your clones ) to facilitate a meaningfull conversation ( with LHF members ), if your goal is to properly integrate these tweets into your L200s .
- Here's a pic of Widgets' 2405 FR study ( for comparison purposes to any plots you may have generated ) ;
- Click the following pic for an EBay offer ;
- It's an aftermarket diaphragm for the 2405H. At $ 34.00 ( including the free shipping ) it represents a small investment that will give you some idea if your Acousticians will accept the stock JBL diaphragm .
- Before buying , you may want to disassemble one of your tweeters so that you can measure the diameter of the gap ( ie; width of the voice-coil ). It needs to be 1.75" ( spot-on, centre of gap to centre of gap ) to accept the JBL diaphragm ( or the aftermarket, if the aftermarket is well built ). Other physical measurements will also be critical for a successful fitup ( such as the depth of gap ) . Though, even if you get these specs. from your Acoustician, it's unlikely you'll get enough accurate info to "guarantee" that a JBL will fit ( ie; it's easier to just buy a cloned diaphragm to see how "it" fits / & then "interpret" that experience before moving to purchase bonafide JBL diaphragms ).
- You'll also want to know the magnetic flux level in the gap of your clones, to get an idea if the Acousticians' magnetic assembly is as astrong as the JBLs' ( ie; does the Acoustician generate enough magnetic "juice" to work well with a JBL diaphragm ( ie; making all this mixing & matching worthwhile ).
- Measurement equipment ( for flux level in a gap ) is available . Cost for these specialized meters ( with an appropriate probe for small gaps ) is all over the map .
I think that the winking emoticon made it pretty clear that witoman was kidding.
You're not REALLY a bashful flower who must be gently persuaded to voice your honest opinion. And please don't become one, because this would be a much more boring and uninformative place if you did.
Now if we can only bring the shy and retiring Maron Horonzakz out of his shell . . .
glen
"Make it sound like dinosaurs eating cars"
- Nick Lowe, while producing Elvis Costello
Me? Bashful? Gentle?
I told him the truth, as I see it, and so did others.
I loved Witomans statement about Hi Fi dying along with the old men! Hi Fi isnt going to die along with the old men, Hi Fi died already, due to many reasons! Home Theater, iPods and downloads, the extreme expense of high quality Hi Fi, and last but NOT least, The Computer Age! After all, where are we right now? Listening to Hi Fi? Or chatting and talking on the computer?
:dont-know
scottyj
My Eyes must be Wide Shut then!
Really, the folks who are listening to their systems right now aren't speaking at this very moment (they'll probably be along a bit later once they've flipped the record.)
HiFi was a term of the 50s wasn't it? Originally not even stereo ...
HiFi was never something for the masses anyway, was it?
HiFi died years ago - one ancient label expires but we are Music lovers - much different.
Besides, now that they overcompress so much of the music, the only pristene sounds for us who care is to hunt down old records, to preserve a dying medium ...
Either that or take all those black pizzas out for a few rounds of skeet ...
PULL!!
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
Yes, totally agree.
But you already know it. Hi Fi means High Fidelity. And so much of todays recordings are anything but high fidelity, and for that reason, I say hi fi died years ago.
IMHO, the better your speakers are, the more revealing of the quality of the recordings you play they are!
Ill have to admit, that when I do want to hear something good, I am digging into recordings of the past!
scottyj
a) The winking emoticon meant that I was kidding.
b) I paid $78 for the pair of el cheapo slot loaded tweeters, not twice that.
c) Hindsight is always 20/20. I didn't know much about them and I took a chance in buying them.
d) I wouldn't buy another pair now that the evidence is in. *Now* there is something on the internet about these things.
e) I've taken a lot of advice from this forum in working up some quasi-L300s from L-200As. Still trying to get the tweeters right.
f) I had the obviously mistaken notion that this forum was meant to be collegial and supportive of people who share a love for vintage JBL equipment. Certainly not the case in this thread. This has turned into a just a mean spirited debating society. Boring.
g) You are only as old as you think.
I upped a pair of 4320s into Quasi-4333s and then Quasi-300s over the past 2 years - currently using L200 cabs with 4320s (& short horns), 2235s and 2405s with homebuilt versions of Giskard's 3133 equivalent crossover circuits here. I even posted public threads discussing the project (as have many other who have done the same thing).
It can be done and it can be discussed collegially - if you are willing to be honest and open to the folks here as they are to you.
But your thread turned into a time waster with questions like "can I put Lansing diaphrams in my cheapo copycat tweeters?"
Who'd put $100 ea diaphrams into such junk? Really, who cares? Just pitch 'em - lesson learned cheaply.
Thats insulting to the company (known for making quality gear) and to the whole idea for this form (discussing and supporting the products of James B Lansing's companies). Its a waste of everyone's time.
Now - are you gonna take a fair run at this L200A upgrade project, or just dink around with it and insult people?
The forum is only as boring as you make it -
some folks have a real rich life off-screen ...
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
Why are you so picky?
This question arised in post #6, before KromeDome posted photos of the internals, and also before Scott had posted anything. There were no evidences these drivers where pieces of crap at that time, so the question was legitimate.
Now we all know what these drivers are worth, thanks to this thread, and its on the internet on a public forum. That is great.
You can choose to turn this thread into a no end debate about the good old times or live it as it is now: a reference thread that people
can find when searching information about these clones.
How should we know when it is not JBL and we do not know what is inside?
The only question left is crap or no crap. It is always a possible result if you buy for cheap it may be for trash. It is ones own decision and risk.... into a no end debate about the good old times
____________
Peter
Glen....I could never be accused of being shy...The scars of bitten ankels on this forum prove that... I had purchased Accousticion parts before..From a company in Chicago,, IMAGE comm. So i am fammiliar with the poor quality of that product. So no matter how you dice and slice crap,,,it was still crap.. I dont like mincing my opionion with diplomacy..alot could get lost in the interpratation.
Where does the "Trust your ears; it's the MUSIC, stupid!" contingent stand on this issue?
Frankly, I see no harm in evaluating alternative gear in comparison to the known Lansing standards. Thus far, not many knock-off or aftermarket offerings have proven up to the task.
Are we surprised? If any of it WERE good, we'd surely want to know, wouldn't we?
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