DIY 2 ways

[justbe]

David or SpeakerDave,

"This plaintive appeal is starting to smell a little bit like a riff to me."

I am sorry I asked the question then. Thanks.

[speakerdave]

David or SpeakerDave,

"This plaintive appeal is starting to smell a little bit like a riff to me."

I am sorry I asked the question then. Thanks.

Well, the problem is the real difficulty of what you ask. First of all, of all the possible combinations and permuations of equipment out there, there are no two that sound exactly alike, there is no way of anticipating exactly how a new combination will sound, and no one has any idea of what YOU are going to like.

Your restricted budget makes it difficult in a direct sense, but also it seems like it is an all or nothing proposition. The first attempt must work, and that makes what I've just said above all the more important. Most of us are into this as a hobby in which we willingly buy and try different things, sometimes just to see what they sound like, all directed to only our own satisfaction. We don't all agree on what sounds good, and, again, we would have no idea what would sound good to you.

The most difficult part is the crossover. A crossover for a new combination of components cannot be designed in absentia. Very few can really do it anyway, and I'm not one.

That means that the only real options are: 1) assembling the components of an already-engineered combination like the Altec and JBL systems of the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's--information about these can be found in the library; 2) copying someone else's experiment exactly--you may find something interesting in these threads; 3) buying a used speaker.

The most difficult piece of the old JBL and Altec systems to find can be the crossover. Some of these can be copied from the schematics and some cannot because of special parts that are no longer available. In any case, this is all old technology. The newer stuff is better, in general.

If you are willing to biamp, that can be a solution for some of the JBL systems using the 523X family of electronic crossovers and the appropriate cards.

If you have looked at the Pi site and are considering going that way, I have to tell you that I've gone and looked at it too and have hesitations about recommending anything I saw there for home hi fi.

Again, the best, easiest and safest entre to this hobby is to find an affordable old speaker or assemble a combination of components that has already been engineered to work together.

If you get interested in going in a specific experimental direction and have some questions, I'm sure you can find help in these pages if you are willing to try again.

David

[timc]

Hi again.

If you'r not completely locked to the 15"/horn idea. you could check out the ProAc 2.5 clones. There are lots of material on theese out there.

A friend of mine have built them and they do sound good. Not 15" slam and horn dynamics, but very decent for the cost of building. His clones landed at about $1200. All parts new.

Main drawback with them is that they need a bit of power before the come to life, but with his ML no.23 that ain't a problem

-Tim

[justbe]

David,

All I am asking is for a DIY 2 ways that has been done successfully and sounding good so I can duplicate that design - that's all. To define good is quite hard as when it come to taste, it's a subjective matter. However, I am a big fan of JBL as most of JBL speakers that I've heard sound very natural to my tin ears as I have L166 and L80T3 but they are not horns and I have an itch to try horns. Anyhow, thank you everyone for the helps.

[hjames]

David,

All I am asking is for a DIY 2 ways that has been done successfully and sounding good so I can duplicate that design - that's all. To define good is quite hard as when it come to taste, it's a subjective matter. However, I am a big fan of JBL as most of JBL speakers that I've heard sound very natural to my tin ears as I have L166 and L80T3 but they are not horns and I have an itch to try horns. Anyhow, thank you everyone for the helps.

So what's your budget for such a thing?

I know when I was working through collecting and testing to build my 4320s into 4 ways, I had very specific dollar amounts I was willing to put into the project. I finally decided to replace my DIY 4-ways with factory speakers, but knowing what you are willing to put into DIYs is an important design constraint.

[justbe]

hjames, my budget is $1000 as i mentioned in the beginning. Anyhow, i've lost my interest after the insult so thanks everyone for helping...........

[hjames]

hjames, my budget is $1000 as i mentioned in the beginning. Anyhow, i've lost my interest after the insult so thanks everyone for helping...........

Whatever.
My first big JBLs were a pair of 4320 Monitors in somewhat ugly (varnished) cabinets - but they played ok ...
2215 woofers and LE85/2420 driver/horn/lens combo (a pro L200, basically)
I got them for $300 and a road trip to Philly.
(You could do a lot worse than grab something like that as a starter kit ...)

I added slot tweeters and built crossovers for them, based on circuits Giskard posted here, and turned them into 3 ways. Later on I got a pair of mid-bass drivers and gear for biAmping and upgraded them into 4-ways. All that time I educated my ears and my tastes. All that time I read posts here, searched through different threads, read everything I could find from Giskard, Ian, Zilch and a number of other folks who have been VERY open sharing their knowledge with the readers here.

This is a huge site, there is a heck of a lot of information here - its really up to you to take time and read and search and figure it out. Folks will help - but a lot of stuff has been asked repeatedly and sometimes the gurus just get tired of repeating themselves.

[Russellc]

Justbe, dont take it so personal. It happens to all once in a while, it just that this has been covered quite a few times. There a several threads, the infamous Q&D and a few others which are refered to in them, both "part one and part two" and a few other threads. Zilch is responsible for a lot of them, and I assure you your answers are buried in those posts. I have spent hours reading them and putting it all together, and have myself been told to search. When you cant figure something out, PM the author for clarification. Its not as easy as someone handing you a "recipe"
but you will learn all sorts of valuable info on your build. This is what its about! Dig in!

The threads shown have all the answers for several systems, RTA measurements and so forth. These show crossovers, both JBL original as well as clones, mods and so forth. The 4430 is well covered and sounds right up your alley. find some cheap 2225H that need reconeing, I have seen them as cheap as 75 for the pair. Then, when money allows, they recone perfectly into 2235H for about 190 apiece or so. I have bought many 2425H for 200 a pair in great condition. The clone crossover covered by zilch even has a parts list, and I have recently verified all are still available. Look at Macaroni's "back yard box build" and "back yard box build the build" and get to sawing. The info IS all here, no better place for this type of info, but you have to read.

If it is JBL and plans you want, Go to the Pi speakers site, but with the caveats Provided. Otherwise, wait for a bargain on 4430 or L200.

Russellc

[speakerdave]

. . . . All I am asking is for a DIY 2 ways that has been done successfully and sounding good so I can duplicate that design - that's all. . . .

"Ah. Therein lies the rub."--Old Will

If you are still interested in pursuing this I would suggest you get a box of NO DOZ and several canteens of water and read the Q and D thread.

David

[4313B]

Just clone a pair of 4425's or 4430's and enjoy them. That way you end up with a project that is based on serious talent.

[ChopsMX5]

Hmm... I didn't see any insults made, just valid points.

There has to be a lot of variables considered before just building a loudspeaker. Cost of components, building materials, physical size of the end product, the amount of space available in your room, the frequency range you want it to cover, etc, etc. Most of these subjects have already been discussed in this thread alone, not to mention all of the other threads on this forum.

If you're serious about this project, and want something that you are going to be happy with, then you need to apply a lot more thought process and effort into research than you have displayed so far, because as it stands, it doesn't sound like you're too serious about the whole thing yet.

Take me for instance. I have been planning on building a large 2-way MTM design for the last 3-4 months now and still haven't started building yet. Heck, just the other day, I finally decided on the bass enclosure sizes and tuning frequency for this project (8.35cf tuned to 26Hz x FOUR seperate enclosures). My project is inspired by the JBL K2-S9500/M9500 but designed closer to the Usher D2.

Through plenty of research and many questions later, I have had to make changes and compromises here and there, but in the end should have some really nice results.

And as a side note, $1000 might be cutting it a bit short for a "built from scratch" project. As it stands, for my project, I have already spent almost $800 just on four Usher 15" drivers, a dozen silver satin binding posts and eight 4" Precision ports. That doesn't include the Altec 511B horns and 902-8 drivers that I bought a couple years ago (about $450 total give or take a few bucks) that I'll be using in this project. Nor does it include the price of the building materials, probably another $150-200 on .75" MDF and birch plywood, screws, glue and silicone. That's a grand total of nearly $1500 for my project. But you know what, $1500 is a small price to pay to get sound quality hopefully somewhere in the neighorhood of the $19k Usher D2 system, or JBL's $30k K2 system.

Eventhough you are planning on a simple 2 driver 2-way design and want to use actual JBL components, plus building custom crossover networks, expect to pay at least the amount I have, if not more.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[Zilch]

My most recent "economy" two-ways are shown @ #9 here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=17069

I'm also using that combination in S99 towers, presently under construction.

Jackgiff used it in his Santiagos, with apparent success.

John W, also, in his uber-cool quasi trapezoids with 2344A horns, and most recently, with H9800 clones.

Hamilton with 2342 horns.

All documented in these forums.

And a couple of other guys here locally, presently.

That's my problem with responding to this question. It's all too much fun:

[justbe]

ChopsMX5, you should have seen the original message that "speakerdave" posted which accusing me of things. I think the moderator deleted it or by someone.

I've had some experience with DIY and they all turned sour as I dont know how to design or calculate crossovers using T/S. Much frustrated not to mention wasting lot of time and money. That's why I just want to clone a successful design with the limited budget that I have. As a music lover, I'd rather build something and spend more time enjoying music than experiment or tweaking things around. Yes, I am serious about build ing speakers to impress my friends and myself especially - up to a point as I have my own pride; Yes, I am stupid when it comes to these things. However I dont need craps anymore than I've already had, I have enough pressure/stress from work and from the wife at home about this hobby. Listen to music and read about audio is a mean for me to get relieved - not insult

I will just wait for opportunity to buy some nice used horn JBL speakers that
come along in my area.

As I said earlier, thank you for all of your helps.

[Ian Mackenzie]

David,

All I am asking is for a DIY 2 ways that has been done successfully and sounding good so I can duplicate that design - that's all. To define good is quite hard as when it come to taste, it's a subjective matter. However, I am a big fan of JBL as most of JBL speakers that I've heard sound very natural to my tin ears as I have L166 and L80T3 but they are not horns and I have an itch to try horns. Anyhow, thank you everyone for the helps.

Hope this thread has been some sort of education.

I dont think anyone here is out to give you a hard time. its just that there is one hell of a difference between posting a few lines and creating a horn system you desire for the price you want to pay.

Unfortunately most of the sub $1000 sound like absolute crap.

Secondly this is not a quick answer type of thing at all. Most people evolve what they do over a period of years.

My first and last suggestion would be a 2235H woofer / 2425/2344a/ 3134 crossover ie a 4430

I agree with Giskard sme canned kits out of Zilchs efforts would be quite industrious.

[jackgiff]

Jackgiff used it in his Santiagos, with apparent success.

Hi Zilch. The Altec cabinets I used were Santanas, not Santiagos. In fact, they turned out so good that I have acquired another pair of them, which I should have by tomorrow. I will try them with Trusonic parts, which were my original intention before you turned me into an LE14 freak. I will end up with a spare pair of LE14As should the Trusonics not impress.

The Santana two ways are sonically very satisfying, and were not only fun to build, but would probably make justbe quite happy. Unfortunately, they are definitely not for sale. I can furnish PC boards for the crossovers and compensation filters, but even getting cabinets free, my cost was higher than his target of $1,000. I am very glad I built them, though.