Paragon

[Hofmannhp]

57BELAIRE:........and while you're
at it, log those serial numbers for the registry. I think there are
less than 10 Paragons and no Caprice's registered.

Hi Russ,

thanks for this "sidekick"

btw: there are now 32 Paragons in the registry.

HP

[BMWCCA]

Wow, it must have been really loud because the JBL LE15s can take something like 100 watts continuous.

Smiley said "he was powering it with a Phase Linear amp". It ain't about loud, it's about the amp's failure mode and propensity for taking the speakers with it.

[smiley67]

BMWCCA,
Please explain about the amps failure mode. My Brother-in-law that has the other Paragon also picked up the Phase Linear amp. We found some old JBL cabinets with the correct 15 inch speakers. I would hate to install these speakers and blow them.
I'll post some pictures of these cabinets to see if anyone can tell if they are homebrew or genuine JBL. If they are JBL cabinets we won't part them out.
smiley67

[RKLee]

Smiley said "he was powering it with a Phase Linear amp". It ain't about loud, it's about the amp's failure mode and propensity for taking the speakers with it.

Wow that is surprising. I remember reading about Phase Linear's founder Bob Carver saying that his amps have very advanced(for the time period) protection circuits.

[BMWCCA]

You'll have to ask the EEs here. I'm not one. But, since I grew up in the PL 400 era, I know many folks who lost their Advents, KLHs, and Klipschs to the deadly DC voltage the amps supposedly supplied to the speakers at the point of failure. It's the lucky ones who did not lose their speakers when (usually, not if) the PL failed. Google "flame linear" amp and you might find varying opinions. And also several good guys who profess to be able to tame the beasts. Some even offer protection circuit modifications. (I've got one lined up to repair a PL-400 belonging to my neighbor who's been borrowing a D150-II from me for a few years now.)

Me? I'm a Crown guy, for over thirty years, and I don't know how you destroy a speaker with an amp, though I've heard the early D-series Crowns can do it, too. I give my JBL D130s all the PS400 and DC300A-II I can listen too with never a problem. I did reach thermal shutdown on an early generation-one D150 once, but the JBLs were playing outside to the mountains and the Crown was laying on it's side without a front panel or any air gap. Stuck a pencil underneath it and kept on playing. It's still working fine today, a few feet from me. Take care of your stuff!

[RKLee]

BMWCCA: I have a couple of Crown D75s, that I used to drive the MF(Altec 806), HF (EV T350), and no problem so far. Wow that surpises me that the PL amps will wipe out drivers. Personally, I never needed the awesome power of the PLs Definitely no fun blowing out drivers.

I know I had amp failure once my kit assemble SWTP(Southwest Tech. Prods. out of Dallas TX) Tigersaours 200 watt amps, and it wiped out the cones on my dual Altec 414s, it literally ripped the voice coils right off the form. Even though I had in-line AGC fast blow automotive fuses(it blew them too), they were of little help. I had to have them reconed. I have to pay a princely sum of $70 to have my 414s reconed.

Maybe a put a huge capacitor in the woofer input, and if there is a amp failure where it puts out DC current, it could protect the woofer. It would have to be pretty big one that is for sure.

[57BELAIRE]

57BELAIRE:........and while you're
at it, log those serial numbers for the registry. I think there are
less than 10 Paragons and no Caprice's registered.

Hi Russ,

thanks for this "sidekick"

btw: there are now 32 Paragons in the registry.

HP

Well done HP!

When you get around to printing the registry in booklet
form, I'm buying.

Don't forget if you're down my way next visit I've got some
Warsteiners on ice!

[Hofmannhp]

....
Don't forget if you're down my way next visit I've got some
Warsteiners on ice!

be sure Russ,

next year CA, NV and AZ is on the plan, but in 2009, I will be more than happy to meet you again.
I think you go too far to cool them down till then

HP

BTW: when printed out, the registry now has about 260 pages with 6538 items. With all the forums members Paragons, I guess there will be 50 or 60 in the registry....

[smiley67]

I went with the Gum Turpentine and Boiled Linseed Oil. Although there are still a couple of "dry spots", this thing looks 100% better. I'm going to let the first application set a day or two and then reapply another coat and then polish it off. I'll post the new pictures when it is finished. It looks alot better than my house smells.
In my opinion the Paragons that sell on e-bay should be treated with the turpentine and linseed oil before they are listed. By the way the current Paragon on e-bay has only five slabs on the front curved panel.
It looks like Paragon #2 will have to wait untill after the first of the year to get started on it. It's in the garage in pieces. The cabinet is sound but it will need a complete refinish.

[subwoof]

Those older PL amplifiers had about as much protection as a 5 year old rubber in a teenager's wallet. The amps had super thin aluminum chassis and the front panels fell off when those funky bolts came loose.

The output device selection, too-small predriver devices, et all meant that if the output saw an impedance below a certain value, it would have a cascade failure and throw 65 volts to the lucky voice coil.

If you want a decent "test" amplifier, look for an older JBL/UREI 6230 or 6260. They have relays and a very very stable design.

Fuses are basically useless since they cannot blow as fast as the electrons can flow down a wire ( umm...speed of light?? ). The best defense is a DC detection relay that disconnects the speaker lines in case of failure. This way if it detects DC, it will open in 1/2 cycle ( appox 16ms ) so any damage to the speaker would be extremely limited.

Back in the 70's and 80's many DIY projects in the electronics magazines were just for this use and at the time, the phase 400 was the most affordable and powerful amp available to the great unwashed.

Bob Carver was an early master at marketing + selective science for his amplifier designs. By far the most unique patterns I have ever seen on an oscilloscope is when one of his "magnetic field" amplifiers was driven into clipping with a very reactive ( real world ) load. Lucas couldn't of done better graphics for star wars..

sub

[scott fitlin]

BMWCCA,
Please explain about the amps failure mode. My Brother-in-law that has the other Paragon also picked up the Phase Linear amp. We found some old JBL cabinets with the correct 15 inch speakers. I would hate to install these speakers and blow them.
I'll post some pictures of these cabinets to see if anyone can tell if they are homebrew or genuine JBL. If they are JBL cabinets we won't part them out.
smiley67

I would seriously advise NOT using Phase Linear amps on those vintage speakers. They were always known to blow out, and when they did, they take the speakers with them.

They had a nickname for Phase Linear. " Flame Linear "

[BigT]

What a gift! At least, if this Ebay auction is any indication : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=016

I very much doubt that I could resist selling it if it were mine.

What did the Paragon list for when new?

[Zilch]

Lovely. The full page lifted from this site.

[Even the hyperlinks work.... ]

[yggdrasil]

What a gift! At least, if this Ebay auction is any indication : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=016

I very much doubt that I could resist selling it if it were mine.

What did the Paragon list for when new?

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...rice-lists.htm

Just pick a year from 1957 to ~1984.

[brutal]

Lovely. The full page lifted from this site.

[Even the hyperlinks work.... ]

Copywrite Don McRitchie right there on the page too. I'm guessing he did not give permission?