Underpowering JBL 250TIs....??

[Ian Mackenzie]

Depends what you paid for it and how you value spending money on audio equipment. I am sure your Threshold will serve you well.

In Storm's case he has the Nak....that used Pass topologies. In this instance going to a Threshold would be a sideways/ backward step and not one I would recommmend. The Passlabs amps advertised by Reno hifi are factory re-conditioned, tested and work like new.

Personally I don't think US $2500 -3300 is a lot of money on an amp of this calibre these days when we read about people paying the bid up prices we see on Ebay for vintage "flipperised" JBL's like the JBL L300.

Of course it becoming common knowledge that almost any JBL will sound its best on a superior amplifier. Its unfortunate that many are unaware of this and trade in their JBLs on Tad and other exotic brands without hearing what they can really do. I am sure that will raise eyebrows but thats how it is because many people under value the importance of the power amplifier and pre-amplifier.

Its no surprise that current model K2 /E2 JBLs are often demonstrated on Pass Labs & Mark Levinson amplification.

[Andyoz]

Of course it becoming common knowledge that almost any JBL will sound its best on a superior amplifier. Its unfortunate that many are unaware of this and trade in their JBLs on Tad and other exotic brands without hearing what they can really do. I am sure that will raise eyebrows but thats how it is because many people under value the importance of the power amplifier and pre-amplifier.

Couldn't agree more. I personally think amplifier design has progessed much further in the last 25 years than speaker design. This is particularly apparent when it comes to low-frequency reproduction. It costs a small fortune to get new speakers that do good bass at realistic levels.

[grumpy]

Did I go wrong purchaseing a "vintage" mid/late 1980s Threshold S500 Series II amp (250X2) a few months back?

I would be quite proud to have that pairing. I'm just constantly amazed at
how prices on some items continue to spiral up. -grumpy

[edgewound]

Its no surprise that current model K2 /E2 JBLs are often demonstrated on Pass Labs & Mark Levinson amplification.

It's a no brainer for JBL to demo on Mark Levinson amps...it's a Harman acquired brand.

[Ian Mackenzie]

They were acquired for a reason I guess.

But the point being Edgewound out in the channel markets particularly in Japan JBL dont have contol over what amps dealers sell or demonstrate with. I don't think there is any doubt that the Japanese are the most critical market when it comes to Hifi and high end audio.

From the pictures posted by Don and others in the showrooms over in Japan (where the gear actually moves off the floor) we see one brand and model on that stands out on floor most of the time. Pass Labs X350 and X600. This is also noticable from dealers web pages.

[JSF13]

X350 = 350 watts maximum @ 1% THD, 1 kHz, 8 ohms.

Don't know much about this but what would it be at say .05 % THD, 20-20khz. Would it be near the same? Or somewhat less to meet this criteria?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Probably the onset of clipping. (see earlier post). In certain respects the traditional specs rule book got thrown out the window with these design. They use almost zero NF (in the conventional sense) and use other very clever approaches to obtaining the desired technical and subjective performance with very high power output.

Back on topic Halcro and Mac make some big but also rather expensive amps. I always liked the big meters on the Mac's! I actually heard some big Mac's on JBL's at John Nebel's some time back. As I recall John had 4 250watt stereo Mac's biamping his 4343 and 4435. No shortage of power here!

[Titanium Dome]

Just for comparison, my Hafler GX2600 specs out like this:

600W/ch @ 0.2% THD 10Hz-20kHz +/-0.1dB
or
600W/ch @ 0.2% THD 0.2Hz-100kHz +/-3dB

My Hafler SR2600 is identical.

These are wonderful, wonderful amps and they spec out quite well. However, you'd virtually never see them in a high end shop driving anything. After all, specs tell us nothing about how they sound.

I think they sound great, just the way I like, but the topology is quite different from a Pass or a Levinson, and the Haflers are meant to go on the road or in the studio (or the fanatic's home), but Pass and Levinson are definitely targeting the upscale audio market with highest quality products.

If I could get a Pass or Levinson, of course I would. In fact if I could trade a Hafler for one of them, I'd do that, too, though probably one or two of the SR2300s. Those 2600s are just too hard to let go.

[Rolf]

What is wrong with some of you here? The ampflifiers has come a loooonnnng way since the 70's and up to now. Regarding the Pass power, that Ian talks about I do not agree. They are good ... yes, but compared to other brands they are not any better.

Use whatever the brand you choose, but the one thing to do is "overpower" your JBL's. They sound much better that way.

[majick47]

Grumpy thanks for the encouraging remark re my vintage Threshold amp. I'd love to have a new high power Pass, Levinson or other TOTL amp but boy does this hobby drain your wallet in a hurry. I consider myself very fortunate to have been able to afford the "vintage" stuff let alone the latest. I'm an amature compared to many LH members having a lot less background/experience/equipment but I'm grateful to have what I have and I enjoy it and I'm always open to suggestions from my esteemed fellow LH members. Probably the reason for the esculateing prices of vintage equipment, speakers/amps/etc, is the astronomical prices of new/current equipment. Re pro amps/equipment if it works as well and sounds as good as "consumer" and is reasonably priced I wouldn't hesitate to use it. I remember talking with the tech at my local JBL pro shop and he said the rule of thumb for JBL speakers was to have amp/amps that had three times the power rateing of the speakers to be on the safe side.

[Charlie4350]

runs 4350's with the Levinson's. He walks to work to pay for it, but said he had to do one thing the best he could. Funny guy.

[Rolf]

runs 4350's with the Levinson's. He walks to work to pay for it, but said he had to do one thing the best he could. Funny guy.

Lowley setup. 200 Ampere? More?

[Ian Mackenzie]

majick47,

I agree 100% with everthing you said, my other posts are just in context of the original discussion. I just think its unfortunate that Ebay preys on music lovers.

Rolf,

What wrong with you??

Rolf, we are all entitled our opinion.

I never actually said they are better. What I was talking about was what people see as a standard and what they obviously prefer. I mean they can have anything in their shops that they like. But we see the same boxes on the floors Pass, Levinson, Macs.

You are entitled to agree to disagree if you like. Some people do that for a living.

Just don't insult those of us who own and can obviously lay claim to what we are talking about when you dont own the same equipment or appear to be able to support your own remarks with some factual supporting information.

Of course anyone can come on the forums and argue to support their own cause to just cause an argument. I am not in that business.

Ian

[Storm]

Would a Crown K2 series amp be better than the Nak?

How hot does it run?

Specs read 500 watts into 8 ohms.



-Storm.

[Ian Mackenzie]

http://www.stereotimes.com/amp031302.shtml

Storm,

Read this review for what its worth.

I have looked at a few other references including some posts on the forums and I think the bottom end would be impressive but for full range it might be a different cup of tea to the Nak.

I am inclined to think if your ear is trained on the Nak you are looking at real money to follow the same path at that power level. Hence the links to Reno hifi. I know if Iived in CA I'd be all over the X350 like a hot rash!

Although not the norm the 250ti could be biamped (different from bi wired) and that will certainly cure the dyamic range but that invites critical review of the active crossover and a bunch of extra boxes and cables but it can be done.

Ian