+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 25 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 369

Thread: Behringer DCX2496 digital x-over any good

  1. #76
    Senior Member jerv's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    169
    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    I remain confused, and concur with Mike on this, for sure:



    I have my gain structure configured so that Unity at the desk is unity in the DSP is Unity on the amps. Anything else and you have no idea how close your amps are to their clip threshold. I never run anything as high as you describe. Need headroom, man...

    Uh, no consumer gear here, pard'...

    Anyway, jerv, it would still be nice to know what you you experienced that made you say "it uses a lot of DSP processing power". Did Scotty call-up from engineering and say "Captian jerv", she can't take much more of this...!!

    Or, are you using your filters in some fashion to "get this done"? I still don't see how even that approach would use much "processing", nor how you would measure that, other than simply running out of filters...

    Iíll try to relate my experiences. And if I sometimes comes across less than clear Ė please pardon my bad English (even worse that my bad Norwegian).

    The Behringer DCX is a pro device, and is easier to implement with pro equipment. The levels, gains and interconnects match. With consumer equipment (which I (maybe wrongly? ) assumes that most of us use), it is another matter.

    Many of the adverse comments on the Behringer is about noise. IMO the hiss from the Behringer can be objectionable. For the average user Ė with consumer equipment Ė it is important to realize:
    1) for best results S/N-wise, the Behringer really needs a hotter signal than most ordinary preamps can provide. Volume control in a preamp in front of the Behringer worsens the situation.
    2) for best results, you really need some sort of attenuation between the Behringer and your power amps. (This can of course be accomplished with input volume controls in the amps Ė but this method would not suffice for a volume control)

    The best way to use the Behringer in most consumer-orientated settings would IMO be to use the digital input (thereby avoiding problem 1), and to use a 6-channel volume control between the Behringer and the amps.

    The gain controls on the Behringer is ďinsideĒ the ADC/DAC, and work digitally. This means all attenuation corresponds to a bitloss. An attenuation of 30dB means 5bit. The unit uses 24bit so with an attenuation of -30db you only have 19bit left for the signal. IMO, this bit loss is audible, especially at higher frequencies. The sound gets a bit harsher.


    For myself, I therefore in practice use passive resistors/L-pads on the most efficient unit (typically horns) to avoid this potential problem. I only use the attenuation on the Behringer for fine-tuning. This also has the added convenience to lessen the noise/hiss. For me, this is a good compromise.

    I still actually recommend the DCX, even though it is a complex device and not easy to use in most settings.

  2. #77
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    northern california
    Posts
    6,904
    Quote Originally Posted by jerv View Post
    Iíll try to relate my experiences. And if I sometimes comes across less than clear Ė please pardon my bad English (even worse that my bad Norwegian).
    Only so long as you pardon OUR bad English...

    Quote Originally Posted by jerv View Post
    With consumer equipment (which I (maybe wrongly? ) assume that most of us use)...
    No, you are largely correct. However, few here venture into the domain of DSP's for "consumer" use, so when the topic comes-up, us SR guys pile-in just to feel the love...

    Quote Originally Posted by jerv View Post
    ...for best results S/N-wise, the Behringer really needs a hotter signal than most ordinary preamps can provide. Volume control in a preamp in front of the Behringer worsens the situation.
    Every Behringer piece of outboard gear I've used presents this problem - as example, their C/L's fire less sensatively than does REAL gear, so you have to reduce the threshold below that needed for comparable gear to get the expected response, then use make-up gain to restore the gain structure. Nutters...

    Quote Originally Posted by jerv View Post
    The best way to use the Behringer in most consumer-orientated settings ...
    But this is the rub. These, as you posted, sound crummy. One might get away with using them in SR where room AR is already so difficult that the benefit of their use just might (JUST might...) offset the pain of their sonic quality, but why-in-the-world would one ever deploy these in an audiophile setting where there can be no redeeming value. Yikes...


    Quote Originally Posted by jerv View Post
    IMO, this bit loss is audible, especially at higher frequencies. The sound gets a bit harsher.
    You have nailed their character there. I would add that at increasing "effect" their sonic quality degrades. That is, if a BE must use what is in the house racks, it is best to restrain the C/L from firing too hard - keep their gain reduction to at-most -5dB above threshold - otherwise, the sound begins to really suffer (even worse than their nameplate would suggest...).


    Quote Originally Posted by jerv View Post
    I still actually recommend the DCX, even though it is a complex device and not easy to use in most settings.
    I don't find them complex, myself, but that is just my opinion.

    Thanks for the expanded detail - it might prove handy for Behringer users.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  3. #78
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    8,474
    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Thanks for the expanded detail - it might prove handy for Behringer users.
    I'd suggest a pair of quality ear plugs would also be helpful for those who must use a Behringer device.


    Widget

  4. #79
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    northern california
    Posts
    6,904
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I'd suggest a pair of quality ear plugs would also be helpful for those who must use a Behringer device.
    Dammit, Widget...!!

    Sorry - I just hadn't DONE that in a while (and just came off a gig THICK with Behringer outboard gear... )
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  5. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I'd suggest a pair of quality ear plugs would also be helpful for those who must use a Behringer device.


    That's a brilliant idea -- and it solves the problem of gain optimization:

    http://www.ultimateears.com/custom/ER-9_earplugs.htm
    http://www.ultimateears.com/custom/ER-15_earplugs.htm
    http://www.ultimateears.com/custom/ER-25_earplugs.htm



    (Seriously, I intend to buy a Behringer crossover for experimentation, even though my past experiences with Behringer have not been good ones. I hope they have improved both their moral and quality since the mid-90:s...)
    Treble is my job, bass my passion.

  6. #81
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    northern california
    Posts
    6,904
    Quote Originally Posted by lfh View Post
    (Seriously, I intend to buy a Behringer crossover for experimentation, even though my past experiences with Behringer have not been good ones. I hope they have improved both their moral and quality since the mid-90:s...)
    Give us a report, if you do!
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  7. #82
    JBL 4645
    Guest
    Just ordered one of many that will be addressing the many needs of many audio problems in the home cinema with easy and flexibility this will offer an affordable solution in such a fancy package all for £174.98p




    The idea came to me last year after seeing what modifications the Empire Leicester square cinema screen #1 done to her, with an impressive new JBL sound system array and amplification, but what caught my attention was the loudspeaker management system from dbx the dbx 4600 was a bit out of my reach due to cost so nearly a few months had passed that was until I stumbled across the (Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX2496 Ultra High-Precision Speaker Management System) at Turnkey here in the UK one of the most affordable dealers for audio equipment.

    So the plan is to start off in the next ten days or so that is until Turnkey get one in and then send it off to me via next day delivery. I plan to use the first unit for the LCR with ABC inputs and 6 outputs 123456 123 will be used for the fronts along with the cross over filters and EQ and many other features it has to address the problems as fast and as painless as can be.

    The fronts are a very complex sounding combination and I need to program the settings to allow the left and right to be slightly reduced in level with one of compressors or limiters same goes with the centre channel. I will be trying the (Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX2496) out with some of the most complex Dolby film mixes until I have it within satisfactory playback levels within the room.

    Additional units would be used for surround arrays there is a around x10 JBL control surrounding the room at present and all need to be addressed as well as sub bass extension that will be feed to an additional sub bass speaker called the sub bass extension. LFE.1 is played back on a different sub bass speaker and will be latter handled via the Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX2496)

    Amplification will later be upgraded from my vintage Marantz 1050 and 1030 as well as the Pioneer VSP-200 that runs the centre back and height surround arrays it will be replaced with a new decoder for surrounds one that has lots of RCA outputs for LCR and monaural surround, sounds confusing doesnít it?

    Leads Iíll custom make my own with RCA and XLR to mate the system all together.

    So there it is.

  8. #83
    JBL 4645
    Guest
    Second issue is the leads for the present time Iíll have to make my own custom leads with XLR for the loudspeaker management systems three inputs ABC with six additional leads for outputs 123456.

    This is going to costly a fair bit and once I have obtained new amplifiers with XLR inputs Iíll then modify the output leads with the appropriate connectors.

    So at the moment Iím sizing up the price differences looking at Maplin electronics UK, a single line and plug lead is £2.69 but thatís not all I must select the cable as well and that is where costs start to overrun if not thought out carefully.

    Note: Iíll be making my own leads to cut costs.

    Well hereís a few places Iíd be looking into for cable support one is cost of affordability as cable costs can soon run into an over costly affair.

    http://www.thelocalweb.net/index/CCN/tlw_781825.htm

    http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=XLR&source=15&SD=Y

    http://www.turnkey.co.uk/web/searchAction.do?dispatch=fullSearch&subCategory=XL R_Cables

  9. #84
    JBL 4645
    Guest
    Well just phoned Turnkey and they say its still hasnít arrived yet! But they said theyíll call back later with an update as this is a (special order) and they donít keep them in the (warehouse) errÖ 14 days its been now!

  10. #85
    JBL 4645
    Guest
    Update Turnkey has confirmed that the (DCX2496) will arrive in the UK between the (16th and 19th May 2007) somehow the dates got muddled up and pushed back?

    I just been talking about cabling and the XLR and RCA connectors that I would need for the unit XLR connectors cost £2.99 each, blimey that is costly to get the sound working between the AVR processing unit and the (DCX2496). Well Iíll check out the local stores to see if I can beat the price under £2.99 for each XLR.

  11. #86
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC 'burbs
    Posts
    7,449
    Quote Originally Posted by JBL 4645 View Post
    Update Turnkey has confirmed that the (DCX2496) will arrive in the UK between the (16th and 19th May 2007) somehow the dates got muddled up and pushed back?

    I just been talking about cabling and the XLR and RCA connectors that I would need for the unit XLR connectors cost £2.99 each, blimey that is costly to get the sound working between the AVR processing unit and the (DCX2496). Well Iíll check out the local stores to see if I can beat the price under £2.99 for each XLR.
    You could get a pair of XLR to RCA connectors (or two pair if thats what you need for ins and outs). Just use your existing high quality cables for interconnects. If your cables ever go bad just replace the cables and not the pricey XLRs

    I got them pretty reasonably on a couple of occasions from an ebay vendor in Hong Kong abakuscom (abakus@mail.com)They have XLR male to RCA female as well as XLR female to RCA female -
    I needed them for my active crossovers and they work great!
    Payed via paypal and they were shipped in about a week.


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230116448684Item Name: XLR male to RCA Female Plug adapter (new ,interface)
    Quantity: 2
    Sale price: $3.90
    Subtotal: US $7.80
    Shipping&handling:
    Standard Flat Rate Shipping Service: US $1.90 for first item, US $0.95
    for each additional item.
    Standard Int'l Flat Rate Shipping: US $1.90 for first item, US $0.95


    Also item - XLR Female to RCA Female Plug adapter
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230116448720


    Quantity: 4
    Sale price: $3.90
    Subtotal: US $15.60
    Shipping&handling:
    Standard Flat Rate Shipping Service: US $1.90 for first item, US $0.95
    for each additional item.
    Standard Int'l Flat Rate Shipping: US $1.90 for first item, US $0.95
    for each additional item.
    Insurance (per item): (not offered)
    Sales Tax: (none)
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  12. #87
    JBL 4645
    Guest
    Thereís no need now!



    Well I had to pop over to Winton high street today to visit the building society and then decided to pop over to Columbia road to (D.J. Electronics) to find out how much XLR male and female plugs cost?

    Wow whoopee what a saving Iíve made today a saving of (£1.79p) over Turnkey XLR (£2.99p) for the XLR which D.J. where doing XLR for (£1.20p) each and without hesitation I brought for starters (three males and three females) six (RCA phone plugs) each (0.30p) a new soldering iron (£5.00) and three meters of cable that is screened at (40p) per meter.

    Grand total (£16.20p)

    Wow Iím more than chuffed now I can get on with some soldering and just wait patently now for the (DCX2496) to arrive.



    Coming soon later tonight more pictures, tricky leads and a burnt hole?

  13. #88
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    199
    you need to get your self a "third hand" soldering tool. I just did a bunch of cables this weekend and it makes things so much easier. Follow the link to see what i'm talking about. Most electronics places have them.

    http://www.rjsintl.com/productDetail...roduct_id=T166

  14. #89
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    northern california
    Posts
    6,904
    Great idea, Allen - only I find those too light-weight.

    I would give a free listen to my 4345's to a referral of a heavy, meaningful soldering vise. That is, other than "use my wifey" who already subs for the trickiest jobs...
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  15. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Covington, Ohio
    Posts
    635
    Hello
    Here is a picture of my home made third hand solder vise. Small tin can, some cement mortar you could use plaster, alligator clip soldered to a bent piece of coat hanger with a loop bent in the other end that is seated in the mortar. The clip is in basically a fixed position, too much bending would eventually break the piece of coat hanger. Sturdy, solid and cheap!
    I have had this for years, my record for one day of soldering was 106 xlr connectors prewiring racks for a big install.

    Mike Caldwell
    Attached Images Attached Images  

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. are jbl l200b any good
    By angel mercado in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 01-06-2004, 12:14 PM
  2. GoldWave Digital Audio Editor
    By boputnam in forum General Audio Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-10-2003, 08:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts