Ripped off via ebay - the 6260 Amp Saga

[hjames]

I've moved this thread here as I don't want to drift my 4341 thread off topic. Before I bought the 4341s, I was collecting drivers and cabinets as a low budget DIY 4 way project. After Zilch loaned me his traveling 2 way kit, I made plans to biamp whatever I built. Based on information from Tom and Zilch, I decided to collect some JBL/UREI electronics, for the amp and active crossover side of my system. I didn't want to deal with fan noise, so I decided to use a 6230 for the higher frequency side of the biamp, and to use a 6260 for the Woofers. Know that the 6260 amp weight about 50 lbs, so shipping can cost quite a lot for such a heavy amp.

I tracked some ebay sales for 6260 amps but watched a number of them went for $200 and up ...
Then I found this ad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=180105618113
I exchanged emails to find out what he meant about "questionable distortion" and was told that when he tested it sometimes he couldn't even hear any distortion and wasn't sure there was even a problem. I told him the shipping charge seemed high but he said it was heavy and costs a lot.
I bid and won, paid the $180 immediately with paypal, but when I wrote to ask him to let me know when it shipped (my usual procedure), my email bounced! I wrote a couple more time, same result. I tried the ebay message system, no answer. At this point it seemed like a rip off to me, and he had my money!

So - I filed an paypal complaint form. The form had a multiple choice drop down box for "Reason for the complaint" the only answer that applied was "Didn't receive item". So I clicked that and waited. 2 days later I got an email from another email address that he had shipped my amp the day of the sale (but Fed ex tracking info disagreed and said he shipped AFTER I filed the complaint).
But I wasn't going to close the dispute until I actually received the amp. Of course, when the amp arrived, it was REALLY packed lousy - Sent from CA to VA with no foam, no cushioning, in an undersized box that was taped tightly to hold it around the amp. Definately NOT the $80 shipping I had paid for!

I opened the box up and thought it smelled burned. I noticed right away the plastic nuts for the speaker terminals were ... melted and mishapped. How the heck do you do THAT?
I decided to look into the amp - found a melted ribbon cable, burn marks on one of the large caps in the back, a melted wire with burn/smoke marks against the PC Board - in short it was such a mess I was afraid to even plug it in, much less connect it to my speakers!

[hjames]

I had worked paypal Dispute system - but because my original dispute was "Item no received" and I finally got something (even though it was junk) they ruled against my dispute and sided with the seller.

The dispute system is a joke - they CLAIM to send emails to the buyer and seller at each step of the way, but I never got anything, nothing was captured in my junk mail or bulk mail folders, nothing.

Under their system you can only file one dispute per sale, so I was just SOL. Paypal Buyer Protection indeed!!

So - I went through their web pages looking for an actual contact phone number or email and found an email address and wrote, and got a smarmy response from someone at Paypal who said I could just called the Customer Service number that was listed in their help system.
Next day after work I did, and got "Mary", who, i am convinced, was in Bangalore or somewhere similar. We spoke, and went round and round, but it became pretty obvious that her only role was to be nice to me, and that she couldn't actually DO anything. I trie to escalate to a supervisor but that got me no where.

I mentioned that my VISA card had buyer Protection and I although I didn't want to dispute the bill, I apparently had no choice. Her answer was that maybe that was what I should do (!!) It was pretty obvious that they were there to stonewall me, politely, with a pleasant voice, but - with no actual help for me. I am not going to keep calling a customer service line over and over again, hoping that one one of my calls I will actually get someone helpful. I'd made 2 calls and that was enough.
I had worked the PayPal dispute form, worked their emails, worked their phone-in number - ENOUGH ALREADY!
I gave up on them - my time is valuable and there are other ways to get results.

Fortunately, I had paid Paypal from my VISA Card - so I called Bank of America - and worked their system. 3 calls later and the hell of voicemail at the bank, I reached a guy who says he'll send me a form in a few days to fill out and return and start the process.
One week later and no form- so I call again - and reach someone else who says the form I want is right on the back of my monthly statement (!) - so I fill that out, print off a set of pictures of the burned up amp, with notes explaining what all the burn marks mean. About 3 weeks later I get a form in the mail from Bank of America. Its a written dispute form with very specific instructions to fill it out so they can go after the seller for the money. I filled THAT form out, make a copy, and send IT off. And don't hear anything more.

[hjames]

Today's update!

On Monday June 25th, nearly 3 weeks later, I get yet a different form to fill out and retun to continue the process. At this point its pretty obvious no one really wants to give me back my money, unless I stand on leg, hop up and down for a week, and then pee into the little jar ...

Last week was REALLY busy at work, and I just haven't had a chance to print out the full set of 8 x 10 glossy pictures of the trash amp - I figured maybe this week.

We took my brother & his wife to dinner last night (he turns 50 on July 3rd) so I checked my bank account this morning - and noticed a credit for $180 on my VISA card ...

Outstanding - it FINALLY came through. I paid for the amp April 17 - and today, July 1st, I have been reimbursed - nearly 10 weeks since it began.

[SUPERBEE]

Did you look up his contact info and call the seller? You can also call Paypal and raise a ruckus. The squeeky wheel gets the grease. If the first Bangalore denizen you reach at paypal is not helpfull ask for a supervisor (Nicely) I recently had a go round over that damaged JVC amp for my brother and after 3 people got Paypal to do a partial refund.

[hjames]

The seller is apparently some record producer in Studio City - but there was no way to contact him after the initial series of emails BEFORE payment was made. With paypal I saw the money had gone to his account, even saw his real name , but working the system wasn't getting me anywhere. Fortunately, I do all my ebay stuff using a VISA card, and THAT was how I got my money back, in full.

Paypal "Buyer Protection" was a joke and was completely useless to me.

[just4kinks]

It sounds like you are handling it well. VISA should give you more protection than Paypal. Paypal protection is a joke.... Even if you had filed it as "Item Not As Described", Paypal would demand a written estimate from a shop that repairs amplifiers. And the estimate would be out of YOUR pocket. There goes about half of your $180. If you send them a photo of a burnt circuit board, they won't even look at it. They avoid all the responsibility of making the decision themselves.

Also, if you end up with negative feedback over this, you might be able to get it removed.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ithdrawal.html
-> additional information

Feedback left by a member who provided eBay with false contact information and could not be contacted.

Good luck getting your money back. Edit: Nevermind, I guess I missed a post in there. Glad it worked out for you!

[Ian Mackenzie]

Heather,

Bad experience with Paypal.

I had a similar experience.

My recmmendation is do NOt buy used electronics on Ebay unless you know the seller.

Edit: Refine that to power amps. Why? They are often abused and prone to failure.

[hjames]

Well, I bought an active crossover - and it was perfect out of the box.

Then I bought the 6260 that was burned up junk.

The next amp I bought was a JBL 6230, for the high freq side of my biamp lans. It was very clean, but was DOA. Power light but no sound
I did a bit of checking, and found it had an internal wirewound fuse that had apparently separated in shipping. Popped a new fuse in and its a sweet amp. Plus the seller gave me a small rebate for taking the time to troubleshoot the problem. He was quite an honourable guy!

The 3rd amp I bought (another 6260) was poorly packed but works fine.

So - of the 4 pieces of electronics I bought in the last 6 months - only one was bad - but it was a real bad deal. I figure he PLANNED to rip the buyer off.

If you are going to buy electronics through ebay, use a credit card with a Buyer protection plan -- thats the ONLY thing that saved me from the rip-off.

[Zilch]

Yet to come: the "Dear Heather" commuiqué from the pleasant folks at Paypal.

I'm adding this one to my "Artists' Guide to eBay" book....

[jim campbell]

Well, I bought an active crossover - and it was perfect out of the box.

Then I bought the 6260 that was burned up junk.

The next amp I bought was a JBL 6230, for the high freq side of my biamp lans. It was very clean, but was DOA. Power light but no sound
I did a bit of checking, and found it had an internal wirewound fuse that had apparently separated in shipping. Popped a new fuse in and its a sweet amp. Plus the seller gave me a small rebate for taking the time to troubleshoot the problem. He was quite an honourable guy!

The 3rd amp I bought (another 6260) was poorly packed but works fine.

So - of the 4 pieces of electronics I bought in the last 6 months - only one was bad - but it was a real bad deal. I figure he PLANNED to rip the buyer off.

If you are going to buy electronics through ebay, use a credit card with a Buyer protection plan -- thats the ONLY thing that saved me from the rip-off.

the shame of it all is that the savings garnered from carefully shopping the net can all be wiped out by a single bad seller.......ive had one bad e bay deal (item not received) and it has made all the other good ones much less attractive......and much less cost effective

[brutal]

I got burned on a pair of 128-H for my L112's years ago when I was rebuilding. The seller claimed "mint" (although refoamed). The refoam was OK, alas, they were both missing the gaskets, and one VC was rubbing badly. I sent the "rub-er" out with my stockers for recone. Did a little horse trading and ended up with a discount on the recone by donating the basket to the shop. I still have the other here, it just needs gaskets, but I'm guessing the spider is a little tired.

Recently got singed a little on a set of 431x grills. Turned out to be poor knock-offs made from ply instead of MDF and have to periodically "de-warp" them.

[JBL 4645]

What a cheeky little bugger that person is! Do you want me to find out where lives and bust his kneecaps in! I would be fuming with anger if I had an item turning up in that conduction!

Lucky for me I decided to bottle out on Ebay I don’t want no part in Ebay I’d sooner buy it brand new in the box or second-hand but! I’d want to inspect the item before parting cash over!

Oh dear Heather, you poor lamb, you’re not having much luck here there are places in the US that supply ex cinema PA equipment.

What the hell was this moron using on it a soldering iron!

[hjames]

Well, you're a bit behind the times, he he.
The burned up amp arrived 2 months ago. I tried to work the complain through the regular channels, and got no satisfaction with ebay "protection",
but since I bought it with a VISA card, I disputed the charge as Fraud and got ALL of my money back from that deal.

I took that money and got another 6260 amp from another seller in PA and it works GREAT! My downstairs system is just fine now with nearly 1000watts of power across all the speakers (the B380 sub has an HK Citation 22 bridged & puts over 400watts, the 4341s are biamped, running off JBL 6260 (200w/chx2) for the woofers, and JBL 6230 (110w/ch x2) ... music is quite superb, and it cranks for movies, too! (BTW, its recording studio and sound reinforcement gear - not "ex-cinema stuff") (see first 2 pictures below).
As you can see, the gear is spotless.

The Last ebay exploit was some moron that I bought a beautiful Yamaha receiver from - she packed it with bubble-pack and wadded newspaper - it got beat to death during the shipment - I complained and raised hell - she got the package and can argue with the Post office about her packing techniques. Meanwhile, I got my Money back and moved on ...
I took that money, went back to ebay and got a beautiful 125w/ch Yamaha receiver afterwards - very sweet sound with 0.02% thd and nice bass (for Madge or anything else with good bass). That receiver runs my upstairs speakers just fine now. I've replaced the green dial lamps already - need to open it again and solder in new lamps for the meters and FM dial cursor - but I plan to refinish the cabinet in red oak veneer, so I'm in no rush ...

...
Oh dear Heather, you poor lamb, you’re not having much luck here
there are places in the US that supply ex cinema PA equipment.

[JBL 4645]

You really are behind the times, he he .
The burned up amp arrived over 2 months ago. I worked the regular channels, and got no satisfaction with ebay "protection,
but since I bought with a VISA card, I disputed the charge and got ALL of my money back from that deal anyway.
(This "lamb" has teeth and kitty claws).

Stay off ebay if you like, that leaves more good stuff for the rest of us (grin)

Well that would explain the extraordinary strength you have to lift large loudspeakers and amplifiers around then.




Hay I’m not going to lose any sleep over Ebay there are plenty of places in the UK to get ex JBL cinema gear from.

[hjames]

Well that would explain the extraordinary strength you have to lift large loudspeakers and amplifiers around then.

You are a funny little sod, aren'tcha?

Gads - its 6Am over in wee olde Burnmouth!
Well, I'm tired of your silly screen caps,
I'm afraid you'll have to take your bored self and find someone else to troll, I'm off to bed now.