Signatures

[kingjames]

Scotty, I was one who used to complain when a thread was closed because it got too heated. I complained because I considered it censorship but have since changed my attitude towards that end. I now realize that closing the threads was the proper thing to do because there has to be some sense of civility in these posts.

Not to bring up old topics but the OT section was a section for us who are unable to or don't wish to partcipate in the diy area's.Somehow we must interject other topics into our discussions because this is only natural and human. A happy member will be a contributing member but if you take away the area he is only capable of participating in then you will lose that member.

I know there is no easy fix and you can't please everyone but just understand I was happy enough about this forum at one time to contribute to it freely as it was a class place indeed. I still believe this.

[Don C]

Evidently Don should have made it a sticky and locked the thread.

You can say that again.

[edgewound]

I'll add another dimension to the thought process here, then I'm done with this. This is still in the "feedback" section so it must be ok to post this here, right?

If one feels a "lecture" coming on...stop reading here.

It's been said that there are changes coming to this site. It'll be interesting to see it unfold. Could it be morphing into a paid ad site like AudioKarma.com? Many members here are members there also...but keep in mind that it is a very broad-subject site...This place is called "Lansing". Now...one could surmise that Lansing pretty much spawned an entire audio industry by his innovations, but that stretches the theory awfully thin....and with that the resources.

AK has sections for everyone...yes... everyone. Almost anything goes as long as it's suitable for the entire family...think PG-13 rating... and any conversations that get out of line are quickly extinguished. It ain't a total free-for-all...and it shouldn't be. Public places should never be a free-for-all. That why we have police dept's...like'em or not.

There is talk of members here not caring for sections like DIY, and rather like hanging out in an "off topic" section to be able to discuss whatever comes up at any given moment.

Running this place has got to be contolled to keep the costs in line. If it keeps broadening you can count on additional sources of revenue being added by necessity....nothing is free...at least not for too long.

Have you ever been to an open house party thrown by teenagers when the parents are away? The place gets trashed...destroyed....because many people don't care about messing up someone else's house...because it's not their's ...and might be envious of what someone else has and they don't.

I would think most...no...all people here would expect guests in their home to be respectful of their host. This is Don's house and the moderators can be considered the "doormen".

If you aren't...then you don't deserve respect in return and should go elsewhere.

My lecture has ended.

[jim campbell]

Yes, Jim I agree, and there are forums where almost anything goes, word and picturewise!

My point is that without a conduct code, if the forum is allowed to run totally wide open, it will get crazy in here. I know you've seen some of the outbreaks and forumfights in here, we dont consider that really appropriate.

true and i thought that we had a perfectly workable system along those lines..........did the ot section go because it got raucus at times or was it a few disinterested souls who just decided for everyone that it was more trouble than it was worth........like i said if a particular thread is of no interest,shine it on,and if it is offensive or out of hand that is the moderators call.sure there were some flaming and catcalls but there was also a lot of interesting stuff too.....i dont recall beng innundated with porn or off color stuff in the pre purge days so i think it a tad silly to trot that out as an excuse now....no one said anything about running wide open and we're hardly 20 year old club kids.....kee-rist now every time two or more people disagree on anything its a crisis........hell ive been attacked for everything from posting in whats playing,to my politics,and god knows what all else.........but at least then i knew where i was.......

[4313B]

If you aren't...then you don't deserve respect in return and should go elsewhere.

You sure nailed that one.

[Zilch]

Somebody had to moderate OT, and because of its inherent volatility, that required a disproportionate level of attention and effort dedicated to material by definition outside the site mission.

Conflict generated there also spilled over into the on-topic forums, necessitating more intensive moderation of them, as well.

That's my take on why it didn't work....

[4313B]

did the ot section go because it got raucus at times or was it a few disinterested souls who just decided for everyone that it was more trouble than it was worth

Like Mr. Widget and I said earlier, it's still being discussed and yet we are still seeing these posts. I'll gladly offer up a hint - when the threads go on and on it ticks everyone off from the top right on down the line and then the "I see no point in letting this thread continue" gets stamped at the end along with a "closed" sign.

[jim campbell]

AK has sections for everyone...yes... everyone. Almost anything goes as long as it's suitable for the entire family...think PG-13 rating... and any conversations that get out of line are quickly extinguished. It ain't a total free-for-all...and it shouldn't be. Public places should never be a free-for-all. That why we have police dept's...like'em or not.

There is talk of members here not caring for sections like DIY, and rather like hanging out in an "off topic" section to be able to discuss whatever comes up at any given moment.

Running this place has got to be contolled to keep the costs in line. If it keeps broadening you can count on additional sources of revenue being added by necessity....nothing is free...at least not for too long.

Have you ever been to an open house party thrown by teenagers when the parents are away? The place gets trashed...destroyed....because many people don't care about messing up someone else's house...because it's not their's ...and might be envious of what someone else has and they don't.

I would think most...no...all people here would expect guests in their home to be respectful of their host. This is Don's house and the moderators can be considered the "doormen".

If you aren't...then you don't deserve respect in return and should go elsewhere.

My lecture has ended.

you miss the point.whether i like or dislike diy is not relevent,others want it and thats why i dont call for its removal..........ot was liked by some and a few others decided that their longevity trumped and it was gone.........if cost is an issue then lets put those cards on the table...........just lets see someone put a price tag on off topic rants as opposed to your pictures.........you cant have it both ways......

as i said we were hardly on the road to ruin before.im sure the entry fee into "don's house" is not blind agreement with everything he says.......my house is like that and i get few visitors

much as id like to afford infallibility on the mods they are human and some have rushed to judgement hastily before and it behooves us to call them on it when it occurs.........i remember a moderator taking an esteemed member to task simply for not owning jbl's............i think it was bo that spoke of restraint and each and every mod should have that post tattooed on somewhere........

i think it all boils down to letting the other guy have his place even if it is of no particular interest to you................that sir IS respect

for some reason my multi quote is not working.......

[scott fitlin]

true and i thought that we had a perfectly workable system along those lines..........did the ot section go because it got raucus at times or was it a few disinterested souls who just decided for everyone that it was more trouble than it was worth........like i said if a particular thread is of no interest,shine it on,and if it is offensive or out of hand that is the moderators call.sure there were some flaming and catcalls but there was also a lot of interesting stuff too.....i dont recall beng innundated with porn or off color stuff in the pre purge days so i think it a tad silly to trot that out as an excuse now....no one said anything about running wide open and we're hardly 20 year old club kids.....kee-rist now every time two or more people disagree on anything its a crisis........hell ive been attacked for everything from posting in whats playing,to my politics,and god knows what all else.........but at least then i knew where i was.......

Im just saying that at one time, this forum could have its baudy moments. Then, as the forum grew, not everyone was ok with mature subject and content. I was. But, hey, I am not the only one here, either.

At that time, a decision was made, by the sites owner and people helping run the site, that certain things were not appropriate here. YOU never saw forum member CamelToes avatar I guess? I thought it was hilarious, others thought it wasnt right!

Also I am not suggesting we are 20yr olds, just that that forum is a good place to see how things get wild. Not hating, just explicit. You can turn anything into a joke or a meaning far from what was originally intended. Thats all. I happen to like talking with the club kids over there. They are always asking me about old analog club sound of the 70,s and 80,s and WHY did it sound better? And some of the more explicit stuff is VERY entertaining, TO ME, but this is a different forum, and has different rules.

Personally, I would love to see a paid membership, similar to AK, with an adult section, that you must register for seperatly from the regular forum, that way, those that DO register for the adult OT section KNOW what they are getting into. Those that dont want it? Dont sign up for it, and you wont have access to it! THIS is MY personal way I would like to see it done! And, its just my opinion, if it never happens, or Don, or anyone else doesnt like it, OK, I can live with that! Thats the way things go.

Now, this is just me, talking to you guys. No moderator, just Scott. These are some of my ideas and opinions. However, I also am aware that just because I make them known, doesnt mean Don, or anyone has an obligation to make them a reality on this site either!

[jim campbell]

Like Mr. Widget and I said earlier, it's still being discussed and yet we are still seeing these posts. I'll gladly offer up a hint - when the threads go on and on it ticks everyone off from the top right on down the line and then the "I see no point in letting this thread continue" gets stamped at the end along with a "closed" sign.

then i will leave it there.........

[kingjames]

There is talk of members here not caring for sections like DIY, and rather like hanging out in an "off topic" section to be able to discuss whatever comes up at any given moment.

Running this place has got to be contolled to keep the costs in line. If it keeps broadening you can count on additional sources of revenue being added by necessity....nothing is free...at least not for too long.

It's not a matter of not caring for the diy section but a matter of feeling comfortable. I still read the diy for tips and such and have learned alot but I don't feel comfortable posting there just yet because my skills are not where I want them to be. I do this out of respect for the pro's who use that area.This is IMHO is real respect.

I am sure this place cost much to run but if you remember not too long along we were told by the people who host this site that resources are not a problem.

I think that everyone who contributes to this site does so because they feel that nothing is free and this is their way to show appreciation for this site.

I could be wrong but most contributions come from people who do not spend their time in the diy area.Actually this really has nothing to do with the diy area. It has to do with content for every one.

And if you look at the past fundraiser's, money shouldn't be an issue anyway.Funds can only be generated by a happy populace.

I don't want an OT area where everything goes,we have moderator's to make sure that doesn't happen. I want an OT area because that was a medium to cover other subjects that are also important.

I am sorry but as much as I try I just can't sleep,walk,talk,or constantly converse on JBL nor should I be expected to.

[4313B]

It's not a matter of not caring for the diy section but a matter of feeling comfortable. I still read the diy for tips and such and have learned alot but I don't feel comfortable posting there just yet because my skills are not where I want them to be. I do this out of respect for the pro's who use that area.This is IMHO is real respect.

Um, others have virtually no problem whatsoever spamming that section to death dude, even when asked to cool it, so you might as well jump right in too.

I actually have a plan to split up DIY in the coming weeks.

[scott fitlin]

I am sorry but as much as I try I just can't sleep,walk,talk,or constantly converse on JBL nor should I be expected to.

I feel you on this. I also would like to come to some form of being able to have an OT type section, a place where we can just hang out, and shoot the breeze.

As has been stated, its under consideration.

[Don McRitchie]

Geeze. Go away for a couple of days and all hell breaks loose. I just got back from a work trip up north. I flew back in a small plane and landed in the worst thunderstorm I have ever experienced in the air. If you've ever seen the flying scene in the movie Almost Famous - it wasn't quite that bad, but it was in the same ball park. Now I come here and its like I'm back in that plane being buffeted up and down

That was meant to be a joke, but there is obviously an element of truth behind it. I'll try and address all of the diverse elements in this thread from my perspective as follows.

First, the signature issue was stand alone. Like Freud said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". There's no hidden agenda nor is it part of an indirect assault on some larger issue. As you know, personal matters took me away from regular involvement in this forum for some time. I have recently been trying to catch up by reading old threads. Many were a difficult read because the repeated use of long signatures broke up continuity. Further, it got to the point of annoyance to be exposed to the same bits of text over and over again. It was like having a CD on repeat play for the same song. Eventually it drives you nuts.

There is no question that there are larger issues to do with the demeanor, content, rules and moderation of this forum. As has been pointed out, the forum has experienced continued growth since the day it opened to the point that we have grown by an order of magnitude in daily posts over just the past four years. The original rules that I put in place were reflective of a small community that was not terribly diverse in interest and personality. This is certainly not true today. We are dealing with an much wider range of interest, level of involvement and personal demeanor for the membership at large. This expansion of scope has resulted in some degree of conflict and I commend the admins and mods is doing an effective but thankless job of keeping things on a reasonable keel.

However, I do intend that this forum is reflective of the desires of the membership at large to the degree possible. The key qualifier here is "to the degree possible". It is absolutely impossible to achieve anything near consensus on virtually any issue as evidenced by the comments in this thread alone. Nonetheless, I am always open to suggestions to positive change that has substantial majority support. To that end, feel free to suggest any changes that you would like to see. However, the following qualifiers will apply.

First, maintaining a degree of order and a degree of relevance in the overall forum must be preserved or enhanced by any suggested change. Second, you need to come up with fully detailed proposals for which a decision can be made to either implement or reject. Simply stating that you don't like something is not a proposal. If you would like to make a proposal, start a new thread in this "Forum Feedback" board that not only details your proposal, but explains why you want it implemented and what results you expect. Expressing such a proposal as a poll is probably the most effective means. For anyone that wants to respond to such a post or poll, they must ensure that the keep their response completely on topic. If the discussion sparks interest in another related change, then start a new thread with a detailed proposal just on the new development. Hijacking will not be tolerated on these threads.

Quite frankly, much of this thread reads to me like a bitch session. While venting can be healthy for the venter, it really isn't constructive and doesn't give the forum organizers anything concrete to work with. By all means, try to channel your frustrations into proposals for positive change and I guarantee you will get a full hearing.

Don

[hjames]

I think that everyone who contributes to this site does so because they feel that nothing is free and this is their way to show appreciation for this site.

I could be wrong but most contributions come from people who do not spend their time in the diy area.Actually this really has nothing to do with the diy area. It has to do with content for every one.

I am sorry but as much as I try I just can't sleep,walk,talk,or constantly converse on JBL nor should I be expected to.

I don't do that either - I think I've contributed in all the recent fundraisers and stuff - and I read all over the site. I think lots of folks do. If I know something about a person, I can learn from what they have to say, no matter what they are talking about.

When i want to talk about non-JBL stuff, I do it offline, or in other sites.
I don't come here and expect to talk about tomato plants or aphids or anything like that. It wouldn't expect to. Its not a flame, no insult meant.
No sarcasm.

There is a huge internet out there - lots of places to talk. An even bigger world offline. Lots of nice folks to talk to there...

If something is lacking here, I can generally find it elsewhere ...

But I come here to learn about the JBL stuff and how best to "care and feed" it ...

End of discussion - I'm off to see k.d Lang and Lyle Lovett - have fun y'all!