Yeah, that seems to be true which is why we end up parting alot of this stuff out. Fortunately some of us couldn't care less about resale value since we are in it for the components and what we can do with them. Frankly, many of us can build a better loudspeaker than Sales or Marketing can. There are exceptions of course and I'm sure they vary from person to person.Originally Posted by louped garouv
I'm sorry but I didn't phrase my question very well. Is there crossover information available for the following combinations?
JBL LE14H-3 + waveguide
JBL ME150H + Altec 511b
JBL 2235H + JBL 2352
Are either the Altec 19's or JBL 4430's considered collectable if a person where to source some originals?
Thanks
Wow... that's alot to ask of someone...
Maybe Zilch has the time to whip it all up for you.
That's my problem. I'm certain that _I_ couldn't build a better loudspeaker than either Altec or JBL so I'm looking for guidance from those who can. I would never consider trying to integrate two components from scratch, (don't have the knowledge/experience), but I can solder, saw, and e-bay OK.
Jorg
Sorry, It's not my intent to have someone hand me the information. I'm just wondering if these combinations have been built before and if so, which where the easiest or most successfull. I'm just at the stage where I'm trying to evaluate the available options. Build my own ( likelyhood of success? ) vs. trying to aquire a factory speaker.
Jorg
Ok. Maybe you can partner up with some people and come up with a new project to post about. I think you should give the DIY genre a go.
Crossover "guidance" is available for all of them. I've built all three (sans ME150H, tho,) and they're posted in these forums.
You'll need some measurement gear and a willingness to get a little deeper into design to succeed. Others pay far more and better attention to system packaging than me, typically.
Yes, both are collectable, and both priced in the $1000 - $1500 range. If financial return on investment is a prime consideration, you'll do that.
On the other hand, if fun, learning, and the satisfaction of DIY is prime, you can build as good or, arguably, better, yourself.
There's an intermediate approach, already mentioned, more closely to "clone," but even there, you can mix and match. For example, as I have recently done, put LE14H-1 or H-3 (or LE14A, even,) in an appropriately tuned box, mount BMS 4552 compression drivers on Altec 811b or 511b horns, and build Altec 846B crossovers plus a simple compensation filter to run them, or Model 19 crossovers. Such a system likely exceeds stock Altec Model 19 performance.
At the true "clone" level, 4430s are easy, but you'll probably invest as much in acquiring the components alone as buying a used pair complete locally, so it's largely a matter of your personal desires and motivation....
If this is the rationale for DIY, I suggest playing it safe and build an exact clone of a well documented factory system your choice.
To design or modify a speaker is a lot more complicated than it might appear (assuming "good" results), and it's most definitely neither cost nor time effective: You need to invest in books, SW, measurement equipment -- and chances are you'll end up building a couple of prototypes, trying out various driver combinations, crossover designs and so on before you're happy.
If you follow a well known and accepted path closely, likelyhood of success is very high. If you get the design bug, there's always room for improvements later on.
BTW, here, for the sake of discussionare two more "Altec/JBL 2-ways":
Altec VOTT A7 (cabinet drawing)
JBL LSR 6328P (turn-key solution)
Sage advice. I'm leaning to either buy Altec19's or try building a close clone like Zilch's LE14H/511b suggestion.
It sounds like I can't go wrong with the Altec 511b horn as it seems to integrate with the JBL LE14H series, Altec 808-8a, Altec 411a, and JBL ME150H. Would it work with a JBL 2235 or the Altec 416-8b from the model 19?
Jorg
if you decide to go with the 511B horns, be aware that it seems to be common practice to dampen the horns to help eliminate them ringing "like a cowbell"
Yes or at the very least have a baseline speaker pair there so you can A+B so you have a live reference. Remember it's not just on the axis frequency response. Your power response will effect what you hear as well. If you do clone build it exactly as the original with the same driver spacing, crossover and box volumes and baffle so you can see how it was originally voiced. Change any of those and it will effect how it sounds. In any case have fun.If this is the rationale for DIY, I suggest playing it safe and build an exact clone of a well documented factory system your choice.
Rob
Dampen as in apply some kind of acoustic mastic to the outside of the horn? It's a result of the cast aluminum? Is it a problem even at moderate volumes?
Jorg
Well, here we go, obviously.
I have never worked with Altec woofers, but ran the box modeling calculations for a member here and found that the Model 19 volume and tuning was not optimum for that driver. SO, in the course of "cloning" model 19, I'd be doing prototyping and testing before settling on a final alignment.
However, I HAVE worked with Altec 1" compression drivers recently, and can say, unequivocally, that I would not use them. My tired old JBL LE85s perform better than any of those submitted for evaluation in a recent upgrade collaboration project here, including a pair fresh from refurbishing by Great Plains Audio:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...05&#post160605
Despite their disappointing performance in measurements, however, there are Altec fans who swear they're the best-sounding drivers ever produced, bar none. Tweakers each have their own formulas for coaxing what they believe to be the best performance from them, including scouring the earth for vintage diaphragm types that are no longer produced by anyone.
In my view, frankly, they're most appropriately used for, well, let's say, other "passive" purposes. I'd build with drivers supported by current manufacture unless there was some compelling reason (to me) to do otherwise. Your mileage may vary, of course, but the point is, you're going to have to be prepared to evaluate some of these options yourself to achieve an optimum outcome.
I do like the 511B horn, but it's a beast, and there are time-alignment issues to be addressed in using them. Fortunately, I have an active crossover with adjustable delay for that purpose. Does it ring? Yes, but only when excited by high SPL, or if I clang the bell with something, and that's not even mounted to or in an enclosure. Of course, there are users who will also tell you that 511B ONLY performs well if it's NOT enclosed, so be prepared to make THAT determination for yourself, as well.....
I can't pretend to understand half the stuff that's in that thread.
Whoosh!
BMS 4552 compresion drivers?
http://www.woodhorn.com/BMS/bms_4552nd.htm
I can't deny that the price looks very good.
Do they require surgery like adapting Altec 288-8K drivers? I have a friend who can do machine work but it would be nice not to cut up the horns.
I like the "look" of the 511b and only play to moderate volume. Nothing loud by any means.
Jorg
Bolts directly on uisng metric hardware.
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...&postcount=805
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote