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Thread: What are you using with your JBL 4345?

  1. #1
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    What are you using with your JBL 4345?

    I am current building a JBL 4345 Clone (-a project which is moving super slow since work is super busy now a days - i.e., 65+hours a week).

    I was just curious what equipment other 4345 owners are using with their JBL 4345s. What you may have tried in the past and would/would-not recommend.

    I have the following list of components on hand at the moment:

    - Vintage Scott 296 Intergrated Amplifier (Serviced by NOSValves)
    - Vintage Eico HF-85 and HF-87 (Both serviced by NOSValves).
    - Plinius SA100 MKIII + DIY Hifi Supply Django TVC Preamp with S&B Trannies
    - Benchmark USB DAC1
    - Ashly XR2001 x-over (currently not in use)

    The Plinius+Django are currently hooked up to my Klipschorns.
    The Scott 296 and the Eico are hooked up to pair of Cornwalls.

    The above is what I have at my disposal to try with the 4345s whenever I do get to completing them.

    I was wanted to get an idea what others are using or would recommend I try down the line.

  2. #2
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    FWIW, I have a pair of 4345 clones, too. Cabinets by Reissen, new or re-cone drivers, crossovers from the CC design in the 4345 DIY threads so they must run bi-amped. I plugged them into an existing system in my living room, with the addition of an Ashly XR1001, consisting of:

    Soundcraftsmen Pro-Control Four pre-amp
    Soundcraftsmen Pro-EQ 44
    Crown D150A-II for upper section
    Crown DC300A-II for the 2245s

    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  3. #3
    Senior Member remusr's Avatar
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    4345 in use

    McIntosh C41 PreAmp & MC352 (350wpc) Amp. Speakers need to be used frequently to stay "warm". System needs 2-3 hrs on before sounds stable & good bass. Acoustics of basement 17'x25' room have not been optimized, pool table kinda inhibits that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remusr View Post
    McIntosh C41 PreAmp & MC352 (350wpc) Amp. Speakers need to be used frequently to stay "warm". System needs 2-3 hrs on before sounds stable & good bass. Acoustics of basement 17'x25' room have not been optimized, pool table kinda inhibits that.

    No one is using tubes with the system?

    Remusr, are you not bi-amping?

    I would imagine tubes on the high-end, with solid state on the bottom end would be a good combination. Just guessing though. I personally have not owned/tried enough equipment to come to a conclusion regarding which I prefer more (solid state, or tubes)

    Components I have tried are: NOS Valve VRDs, and Welbonre DRDs, Baldwin Tube Amp, Juicy Music Blueberry and Juicy Music Merlin.
    Of the above components, my favorite were Welbonre DRDs and Juicy Merlin.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkalsi View Post
    No one is using tubes with the system?

    Remusr, are you not bi-amping?

    I would imagine tubes on the high-end, with solid state on the bottom end would be a good combination. Just guessing though. I personally have not owned/tried enough equipment to come to a conclusion regarding which I prefer more (solid state, or tubes)

    Components I have tried are: NOS Valve VRDs, and Welbonre DRDs, Baldwin Tube Amp, Juicy Music Blueberry and Juicy Music Merlin.
    Of the above components, my favorite were Welbonre DRDs and Juicy Merlin.
    I bi-amp and use tubes all around. I have an extremely nice small tube amp I use for the top. You will find that the top of the 4345 needs very few watts unless you want to misuse it as a PA. A tube amp will not destroy the components if it clips now and then and the sound quality is much better. I would not doubt that the Welbourne sounds great, outstanding gear.

    If you want to audition your small tube amps for this role, might I suggest using very good headphones if you have them (until the speakers are completed). They will reveal more about the amp's all important first watt than any speaker will. At 98dB/watt/meter, the top of the 4345 is pretty much a first watt speaker. An ideal setup for this would be a used Stax SRX Mk3/SRD7 adapter box setup, because it uses the speaker outputs. About $200 US used, it will also be a great thing to have anyway. A little light on the bass (they were studio monitors like the 4345 was, and some recording engineers prefer slightly recessed bass; you can hear deeper into the mix) but very accurate.

    I used to use a big solid state amp for the 2245H, but with time I came to prefer a 60 watt JoLida 502B I had around for that duty. It sounded more natural musically. This is one speaker I do not think benefits from the death grip a big solid state amp imparts. Too much damping.

    Clark
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    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    This is one speaker I do not think benefits from the death grip a big solid state amp imparts. Too much damping.
    Not to argue, but I'd suggest this area of the speaker's performance is too room dependent to make such a statement. I don't doubt that in your room the additional bloom of the JoLida is complimentary, but I am sure this isn't a universal truth.


    Widget

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Not to argue, but I'd suggest this area of the speaker's performance is too room dependent to make such a statement. I don't doubt that in your room the additional bloom of the JoLida is complimentary, but I am sure this isn't a universal truth.
    Widget
    You are probably correct, but as a woofer the 2245H is unusual. It has a light cone for its size and doesn't develop as much inertia as some other eighteens. So it needs less braking/damping. The 502B amp is a pretty solid push pull unit and controls it pretty well.

    It could be my room, but after months of exposure to both a giant UREI and the 502, I found the 502 much more musical/less clinical and dry. It sounded more like live music, at least the acoustic music I crave. I was higher than a kite on the SS sound until I switched back on a lark. I was floored how much more pleasing the tube driven rendition was to me. String bass was like night and day. The big SS amp sounded like the bass was coming out of a shoe box by comparison. Just choked off. YMMV! It is possible a better SS amp might help, but I could tell that the problem was not amplifier quality, but rather damping. The notes died too fast to sound natural.

    I guess it is all what you are used to hearing, but the tubes sound a lot more like live music and I can't think of anything else that matters after that.

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    I was higher than a kite on the SS sound until I switched back on a lark.
    Clark, I love that statement in a sort of poetical sense....above and beyond its relevance to the 2245H.
    Main: PC (optimised) ->U2 Sabre async-> Slagleformer-> Job 225-> L96-> SVS SB12NSD. Bedroom: Audio-GD NFB6-> LCR 6328P

  9. #9
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Clark,

    How are you compensating when biamping?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Ralph, the truth is the 4345 is not at all hard to amp. The real issue is that it rewards quality, so the better the source and amplification the better the experience. Some will certainly prefer big solid state on the bottom, I used to myself. In fact, I kind of started the ball rolling here on that issue with the suggestion of small tubes on top and big SS for the 2245H.

    The 4345 does not lack for the typical big JBL monitor ability to play really, really loud without distortion and that would need big power. Likewise, if it is going to be SS on top be sure to use more amp than you would need for tube drive. SS overdrive (clipping) could kill the transducers. The 4345 comes from the era when Pete Townsend used stacked 4350s in the studio to monitor playback. The results of that sort of foolishness are 1) his famous tinnitus and 2) the otherwise absurd power recommendations from JBL for these monitors.

    I am really liking your Sun Ra signature.

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  11. #11
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    Clark,

    How are you compensating when biamping?
    Do you mean levels, as in shelving? Or between amps? Life is a bit tough here right now and I am not understanding simple things. Could you rephrase the question so a brain dead individual could understand it?

    Sorry, Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  12. #12
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    I believe neither the woofer or the midrange cone are level at crossover. Off the shelf slopes will not match up well. I've tried it. It doesn't sound right. I tried a crossover with separately selectable slopes on the high pass and low pass and that sounded better, but I can't remember what the difference was I had dialed in; it was probably 6 dB, 18 LP and 12 HP. That sounded pretty close. I also tried the 5234A with correct cards. You could definitely hear the improvement in the crossover region, but the overall sound was grungy, and I could not leave it in.

    The point of my question was that if you were not compensating, the improvement you are hearing with the tube amp on the woofer may be related to the rebalancing of lower and upper bass.

    I like tubes on the upper three elements also, but I've had to scale down my pile of electronics crap in the LR for awhile, and am listening full range again.

  13. #13
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    I believe neither the woofer or the midrange cone are level at crossover. Off the shelf slopes will not match up well. I've tried it. It doesn't sound right.
    Yeah, there is a thread here on which Bo describes in detail how he has his Bryston 10B setup. It certainly was not a straight up second order butterworth...

    Clark, on your comments on the dry sounding bass from SS amps, I can understand wanting a less dry sound, though my preference tends to be on the dry side. I like my champagne that way as well.


    Widget

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Thanks, Dave, now even I get it. Biamping crossover issues. My answer is of little help. A friend is building a unique crossover of superb quality tailored for the job.

    In the meantime I have my full range augmented rig and my Stax Omega II headphones. Unfortunately my life is so crazy these days I have to steal time from sleeping to listen. I am very tired but musically satisfied.

    Widget, a good reason to ignore everything I say is that I am a green tea and dark ale guy. Just not at the same time. Like my Stax/Hammer Dynamics split personality. If I were not me I would listen to you before I would listen to me!

    Thank goodness Bill Evans sounds great no matter what rig I use.

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  15. #15
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Yeah, there is a thread here on which Bo describes in detail how he has his Bryston 10B setup . . . .
    I believe I've read that recently, and I don't think the special tailoring Bryston did for him was described.

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