Re: what is color (or colour)

[Robh3606]

Geez

Romy was banned this morning. I sent him a PM last night which he decided to ignore. One of the Mods Banned him as a Spammer after his last post in this thread.

Rob

[4313B]

Well... ok... I would have banned for bad grammar and composition but I guess banning for being a spam cat is just as good a reason.

Thanks Rob!

[moldyoldy]

Geez

Romy was banned this morning. I sent him a PM last night which he decided to ignore. One of the Mods Banned him as a Spammer after his last post in this thread.

Rob

I imagine those that need to, know of his similar (usually worse) antics on other forums in days gone by. A real challenge for an aspiring psycotherapist to tackle...

[scott fitlin]

I imagine those that need to, know of his similar (usually worse) antics on other forums in days gone by. A real challenge for an aspiring psycotherapist to tackle...

Well, seems to me the cat got neutered today!

[kingjames]

That's a good point I will delete the offending posts and reopen it.

Rob

Robh, just when I thought all the moderators never agreed with any of the members here you do this and totally screw up my brain's.

What a class act. I think you did a good thing here re-opening of this thread and allowing the people with good intentions to complete their discussion.It was fun to read until the shit started flying and it was no longer fun.

I guess now I can relate to the OT forum and what it must have been for the other people here. I still do not agree with it's closure but now I can understand why it was done and in the end I think it was the right thing to do.Did I just say that?

Now I see you moderator's are indeed human and you have earned my respect this day. Thanks for a good job and for your patience in dealing with some of us idiot's who think we know everything.

[jim campbell]

Hi, Hanspeter...

I assure you all, we have the capacity to deal with this, but are exercising due restraint - to a point.

and for that restraint you have my highest regard.

The guy has issues (he's just a cat fer cryin' out loud!) and allowing him to publish them on an international forum that JBL also reads doesn't sit well with me. Ban him, delete his posts.

hmm....i would like to think that we are still free to be critical of jb's current or past ownership as long as decorum is observed.

Well... ok... I would have banned for bad grammar and composition but I guess banning for being a spam cat is just as good a reason.

i would hope that it was his attitude and not his lack of language skills that was the problem............on occasion my grammatical skills have been less than stellar,or am i missing the humor again......as far as spammers go, the ruthless erradication of this stuff has my vote........

[Thom]

I don't think anybody should have to put up with hostilities like that. But if everybody but him is saying you can measure color and he's saying you can't the truth lies somewhere in between. I don't have any scientific papers or hostile words for those who would disagree but we don't even know what some of it looks like. If you believe I can get Identical signal signals from a tube and a solid state amp and they don't sound the same then you agree with me and if you are one of those who believe in magic speaker wires (I don't wish to discuss it) then you really agree) That's too obvious, I must have gotten the wrong message from reading that thread. I didn't read all of it it broke down so badly.

[4313B]

as long as decorum is observed.

Yep.

i would hope that it was his attitude and not his lack of language skills that was the problem............on occasion my grammatical skills have been less than stellar,or am i missing the humor again......as far as spammers go, the ruthless erradication of this stuff has my vote........

Actually I didn't read any of his posts. I'd been told by another forum member that his posts were fraught with grammar errors so I was being funny.

[jim campbell]

Yep.Actually I didn't read any of his posts. I'd been told by another forum member that his posts were fraught with grammar errors so I was being funny.

fraught is almost an understatement........at first i thought someone i knew was joking with me ala borat.......

[Thom]

What I hate is when someone says they aren't going to waste their time posting to someone as dumb as you and then they keep on posting anyway. Actually there aren't much in the way of written rules, but it does say that you can't make personal attacks, and either he did or I was reading the wrong thread.

[jim campbell]

aside from coloration added by every event in the recording process,as well as the playback,including the room,etc i wonder what the largest number of serious listeners value most and least in a system.the other night i had the pleasure of hearing oh susannah live in a less than accoustically perfect room,no board or expensive gear and it sounded great.yet id bet that none of her professionally produced recordings played back on the best stuff available would approach that sound quality.my list would have to include accuracy,clarity,reasonably high spl ,plenty of air between notes,the ability to reach right down to the lowest pedal tones,image, depth,a fairly broad sweet spot,wide signal to noise ratio,etc.coloration for my part is not a huge factor if a good percentage of the others is done well.i dont know whether it can or cannot be accurately be measured and im not sure that anything could realistically be done about it if it could.........

[Ian Mackenzie]

Jim,

Good point.

But assume for a moment your recordings and your equipment are the ideal have no colorations.

Then where do these colorations creep in like the the reproduction.

I could understand it if you had a Leak vintage valve amp set and an old tape deck.

The only other factor ( aside from snake oil) is the original recording environment, your loudspeakers and your own listening room.

From the series of papers I have read recently it is becoming apparent to me that many older halls or establishments had/have better acoustics than contemporary counterparts simple because they often have straight flat wall surfaces compared to the more delicate and ornate lines of the older interiors.

Basically audiences prefer to hear stereophonic sounds at concerts than monotonic sounds. This has a lot to do with lateral reflections. There is a a lot more detail than that but this was an interesting finding.

Unfortunately the same situation applies to the modern contemporary listening room or home threatre

As science advances our understanding evolves as to what triggers these colurations. We then learn in various spheres how best to deal with them in terms of modelling, measurement and optimisation of counter measures.

As a result of this kind if research are some interesting developments that have occured in terms of acoustic tools that can be applied to the home situation. Harman have also done a lot in this area to help the customer b est understand how to set up the home entertainment equipment.

Of course if you live in a cave and relish snake oil "hype" you will be a sucker for quick expensive fixes.

As a side note I saw an image this morning of a pair of Everest 6600's with no less than eight Quadratic Diffusers on the front wall.

[jim campbell]

i think my point although poorly articulated was that even though the live set was from a recording engineer's standpoint,all wrong,the artist managed to pull off a great sounding show in an accoustic nightmare of a room.the total cost of gear in there wouldnt buy a decent receiver.but had a great engineer been on hand to record with all his best gear,and played it back on the best gear it still would pale in comparison to the live set.and im quite sure that the gear used by the artist and the room contributed a color of its own but at that stage of the game that is just considered her "sound".i guess its really a matter of defining ones goals in reproducing recorded music,and making the best decisions one can.recorded music can sound incredible too but is is a very different animal.therefore is the coloration in a system as important as other factors?

[hjames]

Dare I say it ...

One of the greatest parts of the sound is the brain connected.
So often the listener's brain can make all the difference in a pleasurable event or a miserable event. Its frame of mind - are you engaged with the experience?

The brain can kind of pot down some of the dissonances and anomolies of a lesser space if the artist's enthusiasm and presence are great enough.

Its all a matter of degree of course, a really bad space can kill all but the most legendary performances. And a great hall can never be enough for a bad performer ...

And like Jim says - a wonderful presence can override a mediocre sound system ...

aside from coloration added by every event in the recording process,as well as the playback,including the room,etc i wonder what the largest number of serious listeners value most and least in a system.the other night i had the pleasure of hearing oh susannah live in a less than accoustically perfect room,no board or expensive gear and it sounded great.yet id bet that none of her professionally produced recordings played back on the best stuff available would approach that sound quality.my list would have to include accuracy,clarity,reasonably high spl ,plenty of air between notes,the ability to reach right down to the lowest pedal tones,image, depth,a fairly broad sweet spot,wide signal to noise ratio,etc.coloration for my part is not a huge factor if a good percentage of the others is done well.i dont know whether it can or cannot be accurately be measured and im not sure that anything could realistically be done about it if it could.........

[Thom]

I guess the reason that I always liked D type JBL's was that for a lot of the music I listened to I had to a great degree replicated the original sound system. They may have even put back some of the color the engineer had taken out or depending on your point of view taken out some of the color the engineer had added. I think a couple of things that we pick up on without even knowing it are dynamic range and wow and flutter, and almost for sure some digital equivalent.