250Ti questions from a newbie.

[Dr Tinnitus]

Hello.

This is my first post on this forum, that's why i call me a newbie I'll hope my questions are ok even if there are answers some where in this forum. I've tryed ti search for them but didn't found what I want.

I'm living i Sweden and have been a JBL fan from the first time I saw a pair of 250Ti. But back then I coulden't afford them in any way.

As time went by I got me my first own JBL's, a pair of to way monitors named 4301B if I remeber it right.

Aafter some more yeras I bought a pair of JBL HP580 which seems to be quite rare ones.

Here's a few pics on them






Now I'm interrested in buying me a pair of the legendary, and my dream, the 250Ti.

I've found a pair for sale, one pair i Denmark which is the Limited Edition in high gloss piano paint. They should be from around 1992 or so.

And a pair of the ordinary 250Ti classic I'll guess in wood finnish here in Sweden not far away from me.

My question is if there still are spare parts to get to these old icons? Are there new foamrings to the speakers to get, and cones if needed? Is it very expensive to fix these speakers up if they are a bit worned out and need to be rebuild?

What differences are there exactly between the piano black Limited Edition and the older ordinary 250Ti in wood finnish? Is the diffrence between them so big that it's important to choose the right one, and which one is that?

The piano black LE in Denmark seems to be a nice pair, but it's a far way to travel to bring them back home. The ordinary ones in wood finnish is just some 45 minutes drive from my home town, so it's a bit tempting to take a look at them, even if they're may be 5-7 years older, from the middle of the eighties or some years earlier.

What would you who have more experience recommend me to do, and why?

Is there anything specific to be aware of, and to check up with these speakers befor deciding to buy a pair of them?


Best Regards

Dr Tinnitus

[Andyoz]

Welcome,

I can only comment on the original 250Ti's. There are certain issues with availability of certain drivers and there's seems to be differing answers depending on whether you are in America or Europe. I suggest you search the forum for some of the more recent threads regarding all the drivers in questions- LE14H-1, 108H, 104H, 044Ti.

The 044Ti's are not available anymore and second hand prices are rising so that is probably the biggest long term risk to keeping these going into the future.

For the other three drivers, there are methods for replacing/reconditioning units that should be around for a while.

Anyway, I wouldn't let that put you off. There is access to many good sources of spares in Europe and sourcing them is half the fun really. I saw a good set of 250Ti's sell on German eBay recently for not that much money. It is not beyond reason that you could buy one pristine set of 250's and have a second *rough* set hidden away to salvage for spares.

[Dr Tinnitus]

Thank's for the quick respond on my questions.

I've just found an other pair of 250Ti LE for sale in denmark, for a much better price than the first one I found. The first pair the owner asked for 17900 Kr in Danish currency, which should be some $3256. I got the price down to $2736.

But now for the new pair I've just found in Denmark, and quite a bit closer too, that owner ask for $1824.

He also wrote that they are good looking with few scars marks and scratches. The 14" woofers have been fitted with new foam rings. And the crossover network is modified with new spools/coils without any iron bar in the middle, or what you call it. Do you know what I mean?

So is that a got thing or a bad thing, that modification on the crossover?

I also wonder if what difference there is between the Classic, LE, and the Jubilee? Which is the best, if any of them are, and why?

I ask about the Jubilee because I found a pair of those for sale in Munich, Germany, for $1970. It's some 1100 miles one way, compared to the pair that is closest with some 395 miles one way. But a trip down to Germany could also be as a holiday trip too.

Many questions I know. But I need to know as much as possible before, and if, I'm gonna buy such expensive used speakers.

Dr Tinnitus

[rs237]

you saw these

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...8801&rd=1&rd=1

is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.

regards
juergen

[Hofmannhp]

you saw these
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...8801&rd=1&rd=1
is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.
regards
juergen

Hi Jürgen,

the description says two , the quantity available says 2 (what means normaly two pairs in refereence to the description) Maybe the seller has made a wrong entry in the ebay sellers page.

BTW: the starting price says it's a pair

HP

[Dr Tinnitus]

you saw these

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...8801&rd=1&rd=1

is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.

regards
juergen

Hi.

Yes I think I missed those ones.

But where does it say that the price is for just one speaker, and that a pair will cost twice as much? My german isn't the best.... Ang they are located in Gaggenau Germany, which is some 45 miles west from Stuttgart, so it's almost the same as Munich for me.

And I have one more problem, I have never ever used eBay, so I really don't understand how it work either.

Can I get in contact with the seller in any way, if I want to have a more direct dialog with him? Do I have to place bid on the subject without ever been able to write/speak with the owner directly? If so it feels like gambling to me!?


Dr Tinnitus

[rs237]

Hi.

Yes I think I missed those ones.

But where does it say that the price is for just one speaker, and that a pair will cost twice as much? My german isn't the best.... Ang they are located in Gaggenau Germany, which is some 45 miles west from Stuttgart, so it's almost the same as Munich for me.

And I have one more problem, I have never ever used eBay, so I really don't understand how it work either.

Can I get in contact with the seller in any way, if I want to have a more direct dialog with him? Do I have to place bid on the subject without ever been able to write/speak with the owner directly? If so it feels like gambling to me!?


Dr Tinnitus

It offers 2 loudspeakers at No10231L and No10301R. With the requirement you must enter the desired quantity. If you both (thus 1 pair) to have would like are the price 2 times 949 EUR. I find that somewhat dubious. You can send over the Link “Frage an den Verkäufer” a mail to the salesman.
Sorry for my bad english.

regards
juergen

[Mr. Widget]

The 14" woofers have been fitted with new foam rings.

Welcome to the forum!

Replacing the foam rings must be done correctly and can possibly return the speakers to factory specs but it is no guarantee. There are several possible problems with foam surround replacement... you can read up on it if you like by doing some searches. I'd suggest you have him send you some detail photos of the woofers... if you share them with us, it is possible for us to rule out some potential problems. One potential problem that a photo will not show is a tired spider. If the spider (the other suspension component used in most woofers) has worn out then the only realistic option is a full recone... this is expensive and getting recone kits for LE14s has been difficult lately.

And the crossover network is modified with new spools/coils without any iron bar in the middle, or what you call it.

In general air core inductors are superior to ferrite core inductors and that is why someone decided to "improve" these speakers. Unfortunately changing a coil from one type to another can change the speaker's voicing since even though the inductance values may be identical their DCR values will likely be different. It is possible that this modification didn't negatively affect the sound, but you will never know until you compare them with stock networks.

I am not a 250Ti expert but we do have one here... read Giskard's posts about 250Tis, biased networks and charge coupled networks... biased or charge coupled networks are now featured in all of JBL's top consumer designs as well as the 250Ti LE version I believe. This type of network is generally considered superior to the original networks and should be considered.

Good luck on your quest.

Widget

[Dr Tinnitus]

Welcome to the forum!

Replacing the foam rings must be done correctly and can possibly return the speakers to factory specs but it is no guarantee. There are several possible problems with foam surround replacement... you can read up on it if you like by doing some searches. I'd suggest you have him send you some detail photos of the woofers... if you share them with us, it is possible for us to rule out some potential problems. One potential problem that a photo will not show is a tired spider. If the spider (the other suspension component used in most woofers) has worn out then the only realistic option is a full recone... this is expensive and getting recone kits for LE14s has been difficult lately.

In general air core inductors are superior to ferrite core inductors and that is why someone decided to "improve" these speakers. Unfortunately changing a coil from one type to another can change the speaker's voicing since even though the inductance values may be identical their DCR values will likely be different. It is possible that this modification didn't negatively affect the sound, but you will never know until you compare them with stock networks.

I am not a 250Ti expert but we do have one here... read Giskard's posts about 250Tis, biased networks and charge coupled networks... biased or charge coupled networks are now featured in all of JBL's top consumer designs as well as the 250Ti LE version I believe. This type of network is generally considered superior to the original networks and should be considered.

Good luck on your quest.

Widget

Hi, and thank you for the info.


Yes I know what the spider in a speaker is.

One reason for all my questions is that I well aware of that things isn't always so easy to modify to the better, without any drawbacks lurking in the dark...

I really would like to have a pair of these fine speakers, but is very concerned about the risk of buying such old used speakers. I don't want to end up standing there with two strange bird houses for birds in four sizes, because the foamrings are changed in a bad way, the spiders cracked and in a geriatric shape, and no recone kits to get. Just a big hole in my wallet to put my dreams in....

So, would I always expect any of those problems with these 250Ti speakers? Or is there just a small risk with bad ones, and the good ones can still live for many years and play as new many years to come? But then when even the good ones start to have problems in the future, there will be even fewer repair kits for then, if any? What to do then? Just tip the speaker boxes over rip the drivers out and plant flowers in the holes? That not a future to dream about...

Is there no chance in that case to use an other driver for the 14"? Like any of the newer still produced 15" drivers from JBL if they have specifications not so far from the original 14" drivers? Ofcourse the holes fpr then in the speaker need to be machined to fit, and the crossover network to be adjust/modified in that case.


Dr Tinnitus

[Titanium Dome]

Is there no chance in that case to use an other driver for the 14"? Like any of the newer still produced 15" drivers from JBL if they have specifications not so far from the original 14" drivers? Ofcourse the holes fpr then in the speaker need to be machined to fit, and the crossover network to be adjust/modified in that case.


Dr Tinnitus

You can use the current model LE14H-3 as a drop in replacement.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?t=11317

It's discussed in these threads, among others:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hlight=le14h-3

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hlight=le14h-3

[250Ti only]

You can't go wrong with the original. I bought mine in 1985, they have been played virtually 8 hours a day since then with plenty of parties.
There are parts available in USA at what I consider bargain prices for the quality of the drivers. Everyone knows the original tweeter is almost indestructible with an excellent sound. Great crossover-best to leave stock or modify only with minimal additions, per this forum. Mine simply have additional small value bypass capacitors and are very smooth & dynamic. Original Refoam kits for the woofer are still available and that's the only part that wears out. They are a great investment. If you buy & want some details just mail me. Pete

[sourceoneaudio]

I would say they look very nice. As far as the marks go it is a lacquer finish and can be treated like a car finish to where you can/could rub out and polish any issues as long as they were in the surface and not deep below the finish. It is hard to tell from the pics. Those are the 250TI LE BQ models. From what I could tell from the pics the foam on the woofers still l@@ks good but only your going to be able to tell that up close, but as we stated here that is a small issue if they need a re-foam. Plenty of sources for that.
I would say go for it, and enjoy the music. Grills?

Jeff
J/S-S1A

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...1990-250ti.htm

[Dr Tinnitus]

I would say they look very nice. As far as the marks go it is a lacquer finish and can be treated like a car finish to where you can/could rub out and polish any issues as long as they were in the surface and not deep below the finish. It is hard to tell from the pics. Those are the 250TI LE BQ models. From what I could tell from the pics the foam on the woofers still l@@ks good but only your going to be able to tell that up close, but as we stated here that is a small issue if they need a re-foam. Plenty of sources for that.
I would say go for it, and enjoy the music. Grills?

Jeff
J/S-S1A

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...1990-250ti.htm

How do you se that it is the 250Ti LE BQ? And what does BQ stands for and what is different whit that compared to the other 250 versions?? Is it good or bad if it's a BQ?

I haven't asked about the grills yet, so thank's for reminding me about them.


Dr Tinnitus

[Dr Tinnitus]

I've asked this before, but got no real answer, so I'll aske once more.

What version of the 250 Ti is the best, and why? Some say the Jubilee is the best, some say it's the one that is cheapset build and that all versions after the original one is all down grades. So, what is true and who shall I believe?

Dr Tinnitus

[Guido]

How do you se that it is the 250Ti LE BQ? And what does BQ stands for and what is different whit that compared to the other 250 versions?? Is it good or bad if it's a BQ?

This was all discussed before.

The 250ti Limited Edition (BQ) is the piano black "economy" version of the 250Ti.
"Economy" as the network is far less advanced and the 044Ti is substituted by the 035TiA.

In Europe we had in addition the 250Ti classic edition. It had basically the BQ network but believe it or not, they saved the 0.005uF bypass caps. What a cost saving!! The classic edition had a golden 035TiA Tweeter (035TiA-2).

Then there was the Jubilee with charge coupled crossovers. A good idea BUT they used only electrolytic caps in it. Again cost issues.