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Thread: 250Ti questions from a newbie.

  1. #1
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    250Ti questions from a newbie.

    Hello.

    This is my first post on this forum, that's why i call me a newbie I'll hope my questions are ok even if there are answers some where in this forum. I've tryed ti search for them but didn't found what I want.

    I'm living i Sweden and have been a JBL fan from the first time I saw a pair of 250Ti. But back then I coulden't afford them in any way.

    As time went by I got me my first own JBL's, a pair of to way monitors named 4301B if I remeber it right.

    Aafter some more yeras I bought a pair of JBL HP580 which seems to be quite rare ones.

    Here's a few pics on them






    Now I'm interrested in buying me a pair of the legendary, and my dream, the 250Ti.

    I've found a pair for sale, one pair i Denmark which is the Limited Edition in high gloss piano paint. They should be from around 1992 or so.

    And a pair of the ordinary 250Ti classic I'll guess in wood finnish here in Sweden not far away from me.

    My question is if there still are spare parts to get to these old icons? Are there new foamrings to the speakers to get, and cones if needed? Is it very expensive to fix these speakers up if they are a bit worned out and need to be rebuild?

    What differences are there exactly between the piano black Limited Edition and the older ordinary 250Ti in wood finnish? Is the diffrence between them so big that it's important to choose the right one, and which one is that?

    The piano black LE in Denmark seems to be a nice pair, but it's a far way to travel to bring them back home. The ordinary ones in wood finnish is just some 45 minutes drive from my home town, so it's a bit tempting to take a look at them, even if they're may be 5-7 years older, from the middle of the eighties or some years earlier.

    What would you who have more experience recommend me to do, and why?

    Is there anything specific to be aware of, and to check up with these speakers befor deciding to buy a pair of them?


    Best Regards

    Dr Tinnitus

  2. #2
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    Welcome,

    I can only comment on the original 250Ti's. There are certain issues with availability of certain drivers and there's seems to be differing answers depending on whether you are in America or Europe. I suggest you search the forum for some of the more recent threads regarding all the drivers in questions- LE14H-1, 108H, 104H, 044Ti.

    The 044Ti's are not available anymore and second hand prices are rising so that is probably the biggest long term risk to keeping these going into the future.

    For the other three drivers, there are methods for replacing/reconditioning units that should be around for a while.

    Anyway, I wouldn't let that put you off. There is access to many good sources of spares in Europe and sourcing them is half the fun really. I saw a good set of 250Ti's sell on German eBay recently for not that much money. It is not beyond reason that you could buy one pristine set of 250's and have a second *rough* set hidden away to salvage for spares.

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    Thank's for the quick respond on my questions.

    I've just found an other pair of 250Ti LE for sale in denmark, for a much better price than the first one I found. The first pair the owner asked for 17900 Kr in Danish currency, which should be some $3256. I got the price down to $2736.

    But now for the new pair I've just found in Denmark, and quite a bit closer too, that owner ask for $1824.

    He also wrote that they are good looking with few scars marks and scratches. The 14" woofers have been fitted with new foam rings. And the crossover network is modified with new spools/coils without any iron bar in the middle, or what you call it. Do you know what I mean?

    So is that a got thing or a bad thing, that modification on the crossover?

    I also wonder if what difference there is between the Classic, LE, and the Jubilee? Which is the best, if any of them are, and why?

    I ask about the Jubilee because I found a pair of those for sale in Munich, Germany, for $1970. It's some 1100 miles one way, compared to the pair that is closest with some 395 miles one way. But a trip down to Germany could also be as a holiday trip too.

    Many questions I know. But I need to know as much as possible before, and if, I'm gonna buy such expensive used speakers.

    Dr Tinnitus

  4. #4
    Senior Member rs237's Avatar
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    you saw these

    http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...8801&rd=1&rd=1

    is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.

    regards
    juergen

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Hofmannhp's Avatar
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    250Ti

    Quote Originally Posted by rs237 View Post
    you saw these
    http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...8801&rd=1&rd=1
    is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.
    regards
    juergen
    Hi Jürgen,

    the description says two , the quantity available says 2 (what means normaly two pairs in refereence to the description) Maybe the seller has made a wrong entry in the ebay sellers page.

    BTW: the starting price says it's a pair

    HP
    Please help us save more info about the vintage systems. Let us register your speakers and drivers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rs237 View Post
    you saw these

    http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...8801&rd=1&rd=1

    is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.

    regards
    juergen
    Hi.

    Yes I think I missed those ones.

    But where does it say that the price is for just one speaker, and that a pair will cost twice as much? My german isn't the best.... Ang they are located in Gaggenau Germany, which is some 45 miles west from Stuttgart, so it's almost the same as Munich for me.

    And I have one more problem, I have never ever used eBay, so I really don't understand how it work either.

    Can I get in contact with the seller in any way, if I want to have a more direct dialog with him? Do I have to place bid on the subject without ever been able to write/speak with the owner directly? If so it feels like gambling to me!?


    Dr Tinnitus

  7. #7
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Tinnitus View Post
    The 14" woofers have been fitted with new foam rings.
    Welcome to the forum!

    Replacing the foam rings must be done correctly and can possibly return the speakers to factory specs but it is no guarantee. There are several possible problems with foam surround replacement... you can read up on it if you like by doing some searches. I'd suggest you have him send you some detail photos of the woofers... if you share them with us, it is possible for us to rule out some potential problems. One potential problem that a photo will not show is a tired spider. If the spider (the other suspension component used in most woofers) has worn out then the only realistic option is a full recone... this is expensive and getting recone kits for LE14s has been difficult lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Tinnitus View Post
    And the crossover network is modified with new spools/coils without any iron bar in the middle, or what you call it.
    In general air core inductors are superior to ferrite core inductors and that is why someone decided to "improve" these speakers. Unfortunately changing a coil from one type to another can change the speaker's voicing since even though the inductance values may be identical their DCR values will likely be different. It is possible that this modification didn't negatively affect the sound, but you will never know until you compare them with stock networks.

    I am not a 250Ti expert but we do have one here... read Giskard's posts about 250Tis, biased networks and charge coupled networks... biased or charge coupled networks are now featured in all of JBL's top consumer designs as well as the 250Ti LE version I believe. This type of network is generally considered superior to the original networks and should be considered.

    Good luck on your quest.

    Widget

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Welcome to the forum!

    Replacing the foam rings must be done correctly and can possibly return the speakers to factory specs but it is no guarantee. There are several possible problems with foam surround replacement... you can read up on it if you like by doing some searches. I'd suggest you have him send you some detail photos of the woofers... if you share them with us, it is possible for us to rule out some potential problems. One potential problem that a photo will not show is a tired spider. If the spider (the other suspension component used in most woofers) has worn out then the only realistic option is a full recone... this is expensive and getting recone kits for LE14s has been difficult lately.

    In general air core inductors are superior to ferrite core inductors and that is why someone decided to "improve" these speakers. Unfortunately changing a coil from one type to another can change the speaker's voicing since even though the inductance values may be identical their DCR values will likely be different. It is possible that this modification didn't negatively affect the sound, but you will never know until you compare them with stock networks.

    I am not a 250Ti expert but we do have one here... read Giskard's posts about 250Tis, biased networks and charge coupled networks... biased or charge coupled networks are now featured in all of JBL's top consumer designs as well as the 250Ti LE version I believe. This type of network is generally considered superior to the original networks and should be considered.

    Good luck on your quest.

    Widget
    Hi, and thank you for the info.


    Yes I know what the spider in a speaker is.

    One reason for all my questions is that I well aware of that things isn't always so easy to modify to the better, without any drawbacks lurking in the dark...

    I really would like to have a pair of these fine speakers, but is very concerned about the risk of buying such old used speakers. I don't want to end up standing there with two strange bird houses for birds in four sizes, because the foamrings are changed in a bad way, the spiders cracked and in a geriatric shape, and no recone kits to get. Just a big hole in my wallet to put my dreams in....

    So, would I always expect any of those problems with these 250Ti speakers? Or is there just a small risk with bad ones, and the good ones can still live for many years and play as new many years to come? But then when even the good ones start to have problems in the future, there will be even fewer repair kits for then, if any? What to do then? Just tip the speaker boxes over rip the drivers out and plant flowers in the holes? That not a future to dream about...

    Is there no chance in that case to use an other driver for the 14"? Like any of the newer still produced 15" drivers from JBL if they have specifications not so far from the original 14" drivers? Ofcourse the holes fpr then in the speaker need to be machined to fit, and the crossover network to be adjust/modified in that case.


    Dr Tinnitus

  9. #9
    Senior Member rs237's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Tinnitus View Post
    Hi.

    Yes I think I missed those ones.

    But where does it say that the price is for just one speaker, and that a pair will cost twice as much? My german isn't the best.... Ang they are located in Gaggenau Germany, which is some 45 miles west from Stuttgart, so it's almost the same as Munich for me.

    And I have one more problem, I have never ever used eBay, so I really don't understand how it work either.

    Can I get in contact with the seller in any way, if I want to have a more direct dialog with him? Do I have to place bid on the subject without ever been able to write/speak with the owner directly? If so it feels like gambling to me!?


    Dr Tinnitus

    It offers 2 loudspeakers at No10231L and No10301R. With the requirement you must enter the desired quantity. If you both (thus 1 pair) to have would like are the price 2 times 949 EUR. I find that somewhat dubious. You can send over the Link “Frage an den Verkäufer” a mail to the salesman.
    Sorry for my bad english.

    regards
    juergen

  10. #10
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum Doc,

    It isn't possible to substitude the LE14H-1 Woofer with a 15 incher. It isn't necessary either as it is one of the best JBL Woofers and it is still available (at least in Europe).
    Also available are recone kits and foam rings. As you are a newbie I suggest to let the work be done by a professional. If you can't find one nearby your home, PM me.

    Be aware that JBL spare parts are bloody expensive. As professional work also isn't cheap you can imagine that no bargain is possible here.

    I would also recommend the original 250ti BUT the unavailability of the 044ti driver and diaphragm kit is serious. So look for a 250ti classic or limited edition. They have the 035TiA which is also far from bad.

    Be careful with the cheap ebay offers. You can get 250ti's for as less than 1200 Euro. BUT only 2 woofer recones can set you back by another 600 Euros at least

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Tinnitus
    Is there no chance in that case to use an other driver for the 14"? Like any of the newer still produced 15" drivers from JBL if they have specifications not so far from the original 14" drivers? Ofcourse the holes fpr then in the speaker need to be machined to fit, and the crossover network to be adjust/modified in that case.


    Dr Tinnitus
    You can use the current model LE14H-3 as a drop in replacement.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?t=11317

    It's discussed in these threads, among others:

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hlight=le14h-3

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hlight=le14h-3

  12. #12
    Senior Member sourceoneaudio's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum Dr. If you need a direction on re-cone kits for your LE14H-1's if the speakers you pick require the the work, I can point you in the direction for new ones. N.O.S. PM me, and I'll get the info to you when you find out your needs. I also have found some re-cone kits for the 104H midrange driver.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?t=16292


    Good Luck,
    Jeff
    J/S-S1A
    Jeff-S1A

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    I really have to thank you all guys, for te response on my tread and subject.

    I would really appreciate all the help I can get, and need, in this matter, not to buy the wrong thing and so. And as I'm a newbie I might not no what help I need, so I really need you all as a unified mentor for me

    I have spend some time seraching the forum for more info on which is the best choice of all the diffrent 250 models, and why the are so. Ofcourse I want the best sounding ones to, but also the safest one for the future thinking of spare parts and so.

    There are original 250L, 250 BQ what ever that is?, Classics, Limited Edition, and Jubilee, as far as I know.

    But which is best, and why, if there is any easy answer to that?

    Some say that the original is the best, and all other is downgrades, the newer the more downgraded, meang that Jubilee is close to Wallmart level...? Other people say the opposite thing, that Jubilee is the most developed and advanced one...

    Can you understand that I'm getting my scalp under my nails......

    So this swedish guy needs help, as you can see.


    Dr Tinnitus

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    In your original post, you mentioned a pair of 250Ti "classics" that are near you. By that, do you mean the original wood ones (teak finish)?

    I think they would be a good place to start. Can the seller send you some photos. If so, post them here and we'll go to town on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyoz View Post
    In your original post, you mentioned a pair of 250Ti "classics" that are near you. By that, do you mean the original wood ones (teak finish)?

    I think they would be a good place to start. Can the seller send you some photos. If so, post them here and we'll go to town on them.



    Yes, it must have been the original wood ones. Because it said in the add "from -87.." or so. I've tride to find the that add again, but it seems to have vanished.... It was just some 45 minutes drive from my home. Well I put in my own add in that place to make people aware of that I'm looking for such speakers. We'll see what that gives.

    Dr Tinnitus

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