A Forum Membership Fee

[Earl K]

Earl

I understand that you are a tech guru , but I dont understand your push for fees ? I dont think you are the site owner, mod or admin...so why are you shoving this at the membership ? what is your angle ?

G has already said it wont happen ..I have not seen any mod, admin nor owner push this...why you ?

- Perhaps it's a spring thing .
- I'm running these ideas up the flagpole to see what shakes-out.
- Additionally, I also want those in charge to know that they're not alone in their concern for the health of this site .
- Obviously, they can and will , take or leave any change that I might suggest .

[4313B]

- FWIW; To date no one has measured and published the ts parameters for these transducers .

Has there been a need to do so?

[JBL 4645]

Ideas are community property free access to information it’s a matter of principle.

Start charge around here and members will be driven away because there won’t be any more free discussion to go around here anymore.

[4313B]

One problem that has manifested with that free information is that certain forum members have used that information to their advantage. They have blogged the site with a personal agenda that is becoming a concern to more and more people. At first it was kind of cute and kind of flattering. Now it's becoming a problem.

One person in particular recently joined another website and has a 7.6 post per day statistic. That is a pretty phenominal noise ratio coming right out of the gate. Here he has dropped to a 6.7 post per day statistic and again, that's a pretty staggering noise ratio considering the source. I don't think there is a single thread this person hasn't felt "qualified" to jump into. This person isn't anyone in particular. He is just a typical speaker hobbyist evidently with a whole ton of stuff to post, a boat load of free time, a free medium in which to do it and he has taken advantage of that medium.

I don't think there is a day that goes by anymore that someone doesn't have something negative to say about it. It's sad. We do feel bad, but geez, how long can this possibly go on? These guys really, truly need to get their own websites to blog their never ending projects on. That way people can visit them if they want instead of having to slog through them endlessly here.

[Don C]

Hi All,

(i) Here's but one example of significant info that was largely ignored. It shouldn't remain so. It ought to garner the creator at least a discount on membership for one or mabe even two years. Guess who did this ?

Not the best selection, because I happen to know that the member who originally posted that chart doesn't think that we should start charging for access.
I also don't think that Don M really needs these suggestions. I've certainly noticed the decrease in the signal to noise ratio in the forums, but the site is still great overall. I'm still able to enjoy it as it stands. If the forum is bugging you guys, go browse the library for a while, that works for me.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I agree with Giskard in some respects.

Perhaps there needs to be a blog rule. I posted recently that blogs were in fact the fastest growing aspect of free public internet space. What most don't know is their own providers almost certainly have free blog facilities. Perhaps its all too much work to do so.

[Robh3606]

Hello Earl

This is a hobby site. Some people have had some success using PM's to make it more than that, but those that did had the talent to do so. They were also very free and giving and shared that information with the entire membership by posting much of it on the forums. Many others have benefited by the simple fact that they could search the threads to mine the gold that has been left by many members over the past 4 years. The idea of rating a persons Membership Fee based on their contribution seems odd to me. How do you determine what merits a real contribution to the forum?? Did someone else say the same thing 2 years ago?? Do they get a discount because they said it first and does the new guy loose his??

I am here to share this hobby with like minded people. That's really about all that motivates me. I am sure I am not alone. I really don't want to be a mediator in determining if another members post has technical merit or not. I have been doing this for several years and have a bit of experience under my belt. There are many times we see the same topics that when seen by a new member may be a real eye opener. The senior members here will be like "Oh that again" to the same post. How relevant and important a post is can only be determined by the reader and if it helps them or not. I don't feel qualified to make that determination for other members. It's just too personal and the right content at the right time dependant.

Rob

[Robh3606]

Perhaps there needs to be a blog rule.

Hello Ian

The Stereophile show is in 3 weeks any chance you can come on over?? I have the pubs all mapped out.


I have been thinking along the same lines. At least some clarification as to what a blog is in the context of the site. Maybe limit the number of posts or define a project thread with a scope as an example. At least that way we won't end up with a rambling thread that simply takes on a live of it's own.

Rob

[Zilch]

I have been thinking along the same lines. At least some clarification as to what a blog is in the context of the site. Maybe limit the number of posts or define a project thread with a scope as an example. At least that way we won't end up with a rambling thread that simply takes on a live of it's own.

If you're thinking about the Valencia thread, Rob, (now at 18,000 views and 800 posts comprising 54 pages, for those with interest in the numbers,) bear in mind that it has brought together members from Alaska, California, Arizona, Colorado, Arkansas, New York, Minnesota, Kentucky, and Virgina, plus another half-dozen from another site, as serious participants in an unprecedented, open-source, pan-forum, interactive collaboration focused upon investigating and resolving specific issues associated with a vintage Lansing product.

It's not scattered all over the forum anymore, as the subject matter previously was, but in a single thread, easily ignored by anyone not interested, and easily researched by those who are. I believe it to be valuable not only for the specific content and findings, but also for its illustrating the scope and complexity of process associated with answering what might, on the face of it, appear to be a simple question: "Shall I add a tweeter to my Altec Valencias?"

If you or others are receiving PMs regarding that considerable effort, and it's inappropriateness on the forum, I'd sure like to know what the complaint is.... :dont-know

[glen]

First of all I don't want to particularly single out Giskard, but as usual, he has succinctly stated a couple of concerns that have been voiced by many other members that I would like to explore in more depth, and add my two cents as well.

One problem that has manifested with that free information is that certain forum members have used that information to their advantage.

I think we all hope to use the information here to our advantage in one way or another, education, entertainment etc. Some object when people get some monetary advantage by exploiting the information on this site.
But often the compaints seem so vague I can't tell what particular sin has been committed, who has been hurt and how we might prevent future damages.

. Now it's becoming a problem. One person in particular recently joined another website and has a 7.6 post per day statistic. That is a pretty phenominal noise ratio . . . . to slog through them endlessly here.

We all have different definitions of what is noise and what is information, but if you have determined that this person has nothing to say that you want to hear why don't you put his name on your "Ignore" List. Do you take full advantage of the tools that already exist? Do we need more powerful tools to filter out posts according to other criteria: Don't show posts from members with fewer than 50 posts. Don't show posts containing the words "how much" or "worth".

I would much rather keep an open door to the forum for all kinds of input and at the same time allow members to filter their view of the threads to their own tastes.

Maybe there should "Dumb Questions" and "What Are These Worth" Forums that can be made a kind of magnet to keep more "worthy" forums cleaner.

Responding to posts or persons you dislike with objections, complaints and attacks also raises the noise level.
The most discouraging response is NO response.

[4313B]

Perhaps its all too much work to do so.

Our feeling is that given the amount of free time they have to fill several forum sites up with what they consider to be important they have more than enough time to develop their own site. Basically, the free ride has become real noticable and so has the irritation factor.

Responding to posts or persons you dislike with objections, complaints and attacks also raises the noise level.
The most discouraging response is NO response.

Thanks Glen. You're correct in that objections, complaints and attacks raise the noise level and have zero effect on some individuals. We are seeing that borne out yet again with several "fueds" currently going on. I think Ian and Robh3606 hit it on the head, we need to look at limiting certain members daily post allotment. We also need to look at moving a couple people to their own personal websites where they can flourish. The consensus is, if the dominating bloggers were people who were thoroughly and intimately involved with Lansing Heritage, who posessed a rich history, a reasonable depth and breadth of experience, then it wouldn't even be an issue. Instead what we have are a few hobbyist people who have virtually nothing better to do with their day than crank out, for example, 14.3 posts per day. There are a ton of forums out there better suited for that kind of activity and a personal website could also be a real positive in their lives. Posting here is just too easy and some people can't get off the pipe. We'll have a better handle on it by the end of the weekend.

And you are right in that I was vague.

[Ian Mackenzie]

""What we are thinking about is a trend that began in the summer of 2004 and has snowballed. It isn't any one thread in particular anymore. ""

I recall the shift well when I returned from the Sates.

[porschedpm]

.....Instead what we have are a few hobbyist people who have virtually nothing better to do with their day than crank out, for example, 14.3 posts per day. There are a ton of forums out there better suited for that kind of activity and a personal website could also be a real positive in their lives. Posting here is just too easy and some people can't get off the pipe....

Giskard, you bring up an issue that's increasingly become a pet peeve of mine also. Maybe it's just me, but my perception is that over the last year and a half or so, the forum has experienced a significant growth in postings from members whose primary goal seems to be only to build the number of posts showing below their avatar. Apparently their belief is that the more posts they show, the more stature or credibility they have in the LH community. Most of it is just spewage though and contributes nothing. But as long as LH is an open forum, and as long as the posts fall within the guidelines, I don't think we can prevent these mindless, nonsense posts. I don't think charging a membership fee will solve this either.

And now I have one more post to add to my counter.

[4313B]

Maybe it's just me, but my perception is that over the last year and a half or so, the forum has experienced a significant growth in postings from members whose primary goal seems to be only to build the number of posts showing below their avatar.

That is a growing perception for alot of people. Has been for awhile now.

Apparently their belief is that the more posts they show, the more stature or credibility they have in the LH community.

In some cases yes, and one of them was banned so he could move to another forum and start the exact same process there. His desire for credibility was insatiable, and frankly, baseless. But in other cases it appears to be an addiction as opposed to anything overtly malicious. I could be wrong though. The deletion of OT is being viewed as an extremely good thing after just a few days of closure. It's kind of amazing and the people we wanted to make happy are happy. That was a very real problem and to think I was actually coming around to being "ok" with it after fighting for its demise for so long!

But as long as LH is an open forum, and as long as the posts fall within the guidelines, I don't think we can prevent these mindless, nonsense posts.

Up to and including today that is correct.

I don't think charging a membership fee will solve this either.

The only way I can see that would ever be seriously considered is if it was separated off and the ramifications of that have been thought out. I don't see it happening. I think what we are looking at is another set of experimental processes being put into effect. If they work great, if they don't oh well, back to the drawing board.

There is another very real possibility. Jump ship and gladly hand it all over to the GP.

[4313B]

This sort of interaction reminds me of the sort of posts we'd see more often than not in times gone by.

I 'd like to think that while well meaning a lot of what has been said here is unnecessary and should be deleted.

As you rightfully mentioned earlier most if not all of us are here because we like helping people out. We enjoy it.

Ian