A Forum Membership Fee

[SEAWOLF97]

What about the following strategy:......................................... ....

Fredrik

well thot out, IMHO

[JBLRaiser]

Quoted by Rolf:


Rolf's comment touches a nerve here. When I made my first posting back on 4/13/2005, no one responded to my question for nearly 3 months. And when I finally did get some responses, not all of them appeared to be friendly. So, as a newcomer, I was not sure what to make of this site. If I had been hit up for money every time I visited this site two years ago, then I would not be a paying member now. It takes time to get to know this site and to truly see its benefits. So, Rolf's point about, "the site will probably loose some people that should be here", is absolutely true. Personally, I would rather make donations rather then pay fees. But, if we do decide to go with some kind of annual fees or dues, then $10 to $25 a year sounds about right to me.

Baron030

for suggesting side by side L100's. Something about phase interference and a live environment reflecting everything, everywhere. I was crushed. Yet, this ain't no place for wusses. Only the strong survive.

[mech986]

The other value added forums that I participate in have varying levels of membership ranging from free to lifetime. These different levels grant varying levels of privileges.

Free members can read posts as guests.
Active members (nominal annual fee/donation) involved can post and perform basic thread searches.
Lifers are granted full access to all site features and archives.

I just discovered LH recently as I embark upon accumulating components to build my dream system. First knock out of the box all
I see is that “0” posters are going to get deleted, hum I say to myself how do I avoid getting deleted, it’ll probably be six months or so before I am brave enough to stick my toe in this talent pool. Money, yeah that’s the ticket I’ll become a “paid-up” subscriber; they’ll never delete me then.

Oh wait money isn’t the answer, some of the regulars think this isn’t a financial issue (sorry that’s BS it costs money to do this stuff, at this level)

Yes this is my first post, I’m a contributing member, please moderate my post, limit my access, what ever we needed to keep this afloat at the quality that it is and don’t delete me out of convenience.

Presumptuous first post huh, I apologize in advance but this is a cool place, with cool things happening, and I just found it! I don’t want to lose it already for lack of trying.

mw

Hi MW,

Welcome to LH! Hope you have been enjoying the forum and that you'll keep posting. Great and thoughtful first post, you'll surely fit in with us here. Especially with a JBL DIY Project in mind!! Don't be shy about startiing a thread on what your project thoughts may be, I'm sure they will continue to evolve.

Regards,

Bart

As for the current topic, I moderate the BBC LS3/5a Yahoo! newsgroup along with a deputy moderator. All memberships are screened initially by a short comment made by the prospective member. If that doesn't give us a good feeling about them, we then email back to them requesting a more detailed idea of why they want to be a member of our newsgroup and maybe some personal information about them.

This system has worked very well for the vast majority of new members. There are some who don't respond back to our request who seem like they may be legit but since its up to them, if we don't get a response in two week, we just automatically drop them. We figure if they don't want us bad enough to respond, cie la vie.

I will say that since one of my email addresses is tied into the membership request system for the newsgroup, I do receive a steady stream of spam aimed at that system. Thankfully, my ISP filters catch about 99% of it, and better it comes to me rather than our newsgroup.

That's another way to "moderate" the initial memberships and potentially ward off the spammers. I am also not opposed to a membership fee, donation, or use fee if needed. The wealth of information, discussion, friendly comraderie and BS'ing (we know who we are!) IS addictive and fun and well worth whatever is asked for it.

We should never get used to and expect everything should be free, IMHO. Then we start feeling like we are entitled to all of this when we know it takes a lot of work, effort, and time (and real money) from a dedicated bunch of enthusiasts, nee' professionals to keep this site running smoothly.

Hat's off to everyone on the site and for having decent, civil discussions.

Now anyone want to talk about how big my JBL's are compared to yours?

Regards,

Bart

[mech986]

Here's the reply we use:

Hello _______,

Thanks for your interest in the LS3/5A group. I'm sure you will find your
membership fruitful in understanding more about the history, design, and use
of the BBC LS3/5A and other types of BBC loudspeakers.

However, because your Yahoo! ID is empty, I'll need you to provide me with
more information on who you are, what your interests are regarding the
LS3/5A, and where you are located.

We are a moderated group and because of past problems with spammers, we must
do some pre-screening for prospective members and to protect our current
members.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Regards,

__________
Yahoo! LS3/5A group deputy moderator

Of course, we can tailor the message to include most any kind of questions that we feel helps to include (or qualify?) a prospective member:

1. What was Jim Lansing's real last name?

2. Who developed the original Paragon?

3. What JBL speaker system uses the 2234H driver?

4. How much does the Everest II cost in Japanese Yen per pair?

5. What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

or some such.

Regards,

Bart

[Harvey Gerst]

Of course, we can tailor the message to include most any kind of questions that we feel helps to include (or qualify?) a prospective member:

1. What was Jim Lansing's real last name? James Martini

2. Who developed the original Paragon? Col. Richard Ranger

3. What JBL speaker system uses the 2234H driver? Ever since JBL went to 4 digit numbers, I don't have a clue.

4. How much does the Everest II cost in Japanese Yen per pair? Doesn't that depend on how big a "yen" the Japanese person has to own this system?

5. What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

There are NO unladen swallows - they each carry a load of guilt as to which of them is actually the fastest, and are their mothers now disappointed with them?

The European swallow has always had to be faster than the African Swallow, since the Peregrine Falcon (30 degree dive, measured at 168 mph) is also a native of Europe.

I think I flunked this test.

[Fred Sanford]

I think I flunked this test.

...maybe so, but I think you've typed the funniest post here in quite a while...thanks for that!

je

[mwaldron]

I'll keep it short until I can garner enough knowledge to pass the test. (Worried look, sweat drippig from brows)

mw

[lfh]

I think I flunked this test.

OK, you'll be banned from the forum (It was a fun post, Harvey, but now back on topic.)


I think moderators and resident gurus sometimes are too generous with their time. Look for example at the rules at John Sayer's Recording Studio Design Forum:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3231

Specifically it's not uncommon that forums have sticky threads serving as Q&D FAQ:s. To cite John Sayers:

"Review the REFERENCE area -

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2125

This is the closest thing we have to Frequenty Asked Questions on this resource at the moment. Many common questions are covered there, and it is required reading in terms of our being able to help you with your project."

Fredrik

[Earl K]

Hi All,

- I was actually thinking of a higher annual fee . Something more in the $40.00 to $50.00 neighbourhood .
- To mitigate this "sticker-shock" I was thinking that up to half of the annual fee could be rebated or discounted ( perhaps in the following years fees ) .

- Eligibility for discounts could be based on $10.00 rebates which would be a recognition for publishing information of merit .

- What is; Information of Merit ?

- Well, the truck & trade of this site is information about Lansing branded speakers .
- Therefore, IMO, information shedding new light about these devices would be awarded a "membership rebate" when first published .


- There are so many different types of valuable information that I really can't begin to list them all. The point here is that those individuals who participate here by publishing stuff the rest of us can use / should be recognized financially for their efforts.
- Voltage Drives, FR plots, Axial Response Plots, Impedance Plots of devices or Crossovers, ts parameters of Lansing speakers , / are all examples of information currency. Wood-working Tools and refinishing tips or methods are all good examples.

- If one thinks it has all "been done" then think again.
- For example; It seems that no ones knows the Le of the various Altec woofers ( it's a wide open field ). Who knows the Fs of the Altec 288-8K or the 902-8B ? Is the Altec 406-8Y an underhung coil or an overhung type and just what are its' ts specs.? What happens to the ts specs and FR plot of a JBL 2012H when 15 grams of aquaplas are added to it's cone ?

- Information on Lansing transducers or crossvers is still an extemely wide open field that still begs for new participants ( ie; don't wait for Giskard to spoon-feed it to you ) .

(i) Here's but one example of significant info that was largely ignored. It shouldn't remain so. It ought to garner the creator at least a discount on membership for one or mabe even two years. Guess who did this ?


- Have we ever discussed these voltage drives ? No , not really / and that's a bit of a shame. There are some interesting things going on within these comparisons .

[4313B]

- Information on Lansing transducers or croosvers is still an extemely wide open field that still begs for new participants ( ie; don't wait for Giskard to spoon-feed it to you ) .

What are you talking about Earl?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Earl,

You raise some very interesting issues and I appreciate the time you spent on that post.

I think you are refering to a Newletter type publication.

I am not certain the visitors would regard anything here on the forums of sufficient importance in the overall scheme of things that they would want to pay for it. (see below).

In some instances some members have recovered costs by supporting the owner builder with their designs. That is a private below the line activity and has been going on here for as long as the forums are around.

However, the most sort after and perhaps user friendly data is in the Library and in the reference forum areas.

Secondly, the specific examples you quoted are what a really technically experienced person would be concerned with and aware of. They would no doubt have the means to measure and determine that data. The static data in itself is fairly useless information unless one has the technical skill, test equipment and modelling tools to plug in the data do something with it. All the JBL T/L data on vintage drivers is readily available from jblpro.com.

If that sort of data is not available within the ranks of the Altec site at this stage it suggests there is little call for it or they are not so technically inclined.

Without running a pole the information sort is here is of a lot more general nature. Where someone wants to engage in serious data mining and analysis it best done on a buddy pm basis. There is just too much noise, thread jacking and off topic posting for a sensible approach.

When it comes to specifics the impression I get is that there's caveat over or desire to control publishing revised or new JBL designs and hard data. In some ways I can understand that because without some control, chaos and confusion reign over what are "valid designs" and that would outweigh the benefits. The downside is there is a risk supply not meeting demand and having too many eggs on one basket.

[Earl K]

What are you talking about Earl?

- Creating a credit system that recognizes the publishing of useful information .
- This system of credits would be used to offset membership fees .

[glen]

It seems that most of the folks pushing for fees are really looking for a way to control behavior of visitors to this site. Member ship fees would be a very blunt instrument for addressing specific concerns, like trying to do an appendectomy with a hatchet the results might not be all that people hoped for.

I think it would be better to focus on the particular problems that people have and try to address them in a more precise manner.

[Earl K]

Without running a pole the information sort is here is of a lot more general nature. Where someone wants to engage in serious data mining and analysis it best done on a buddy pm basis. There is just too much noise, thread jacking and off topic posting for a sensible approach.

- The status quo is well,,, somewhat stagnant. My thoughts are all directed at somewhat rejuvinating that situation .

- Charging a membership fee is certainly a shakeup .
- Formally recognizing the value of information published by the membership is still another shakeup.
- This is all intended to put a bit more focus, back into individual R & D efforts .

- In my quite broad defination of "merit" , something as straightforward as TiDomes' initial publishing of the pics he snapped of the 70x series transducers ( from his L7s ) would warrant a credit towards his annual membership fees .
- FWIW; To date no one has measured and published the ts parameters for these transducers .

- If there was no spamming to take care of /if mediating public feuds was at a low enough ebb / then I'd like to see the moderators time better spent researching the "merit" of newly published info .
- Of course the "publisher" would need to identify & submit the info for appraisal for any possible credit .

[SEAWOLF97]

- Creating a credit system that recognizes the publishing of useful information .
- This system of credits would be used to offset membership fees .

Earl

I understand that you are a tech guru , but I dont understand your push for fees ? I dont think you are the site owner, mod or admin...so why are you shoving this at the membership ? what is your angle ?

G has already said it wont happen ..I have not seen any mod, admin nor owner push this...why you ?