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Thread: A Forum Membership Fee

  1. #16
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Once a membership fee is charged, the site now becomes a business for the owner.

    That opens up a whole new set of beauracracy that will need to be reported to the IRS.

    That question should be up to Don to answer.

    Of course it could open up new revenue streams by selling ad space, etc. like ProSoundWeb and AudioKarma....but would the revenue be sufficient to warrant the PITA of keeping detailed business records, filing fictitious business statements, paying business taxes and fees....et.al?

    There are something like 20 or less active posters.

    The forum would disappear if a fee were charged. The best way to kill a hobbyist forum is to charge a membership fee.

    It would lose the battle for discretionary income.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  2. #17
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    I have to say something. It really riles me to no end to see anyone scoff at the idea of 10 bucks, or even 25 bucks a years dues fee.

    Where can you go, and get the kind of info you get here for any price, let alone for free?

    What exists on this site, xover tuning tricks, cabinet tuning, and alignment methods, driver selection for optimal results, youll not get from anyone like you get here.

    You know what? My time as a moderator is donated! What is my time worth? Policing the site is time consuming, and I do it for free. So do the other mods, therefore, anything that allows me my time to not have to follow the spammers around and constantly dump chumps is worthwhile to me!

    Or would you rather a site where you open a thread, and see a pornographic picture?

    Ultimately, however, the final decision on whether or not to charge membership dues are not up to me, I merely make my suggestions.

    If spam werent a problem we wouldnt be having this discussion at all, but, spam has become a problem. And its a problem that requires peoples time to eliminate the garbage from piling up on the site.

    People, any of you that sell on eBay pay a FEE to sell your wares on ebay,so, if we did charge a nominal membership fee, whats the problem? It isnt like we would be looking for $500/yr!

    scottyj

  3. #18
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound View Post
    Once a membership fee is charged, the site now becomes a business for the owner.

    That opens up a whole new set of beauracracy that will need to be reported to the IRS.

    That question should be up to Don to answer.

    Of course it could open up new revenue streams by selling ad space, etc. like ProSoundWeb and AudioKarma....but would the revenue be sufficient to warrant the PITA of keeping detailed business records, filing fictitious business statements, paying business taxes and fees....et.al?

    There are something like 20 or less active posters.

    The forum would disappear if a fee were charged. The best way to kill a hobbyist forum is to charge a membership fee.

    It would lose the battle for discretionary income.
    I see your point, Edge, but, Ill also say that I feel websites are the magazines of the 21st century.

    I stated this before, and I say it again, it could also, done properly, be a good buisiness, and offer really good value for the money!

    I dont care if they charge or not, but, I personally, would like to see SOMETHING that alleviates the spam problem without us mods having to delete them every time they pop up.
    scottyj

  4. #19
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Or, as another member posted - set it so the first posting requires a Mod approval to make it public ...
    i don't know the logistics of coding such a feature - but it sounds helpful from the Mods point of view - and for the real members not getting slapped with the Spams ...
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

  5. #20
    Senior Member JBLRaiser's Avatar
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    I agree 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by scott fitlin View Post
    I have to say something. It really riles me to no end to see anyone scoff at the idea of 10 bucks, or even 25 bucks a years dues fee.

    Where can you go, and get the kind of info you get here for any price, let alone for free?

    What exists on this site, xover tuning tricks, cabinet tuning, and alignment methods, driver selection for optimal results, youll not get from anyone like you get here.

    You know what? My time as a moderator is donated! What is my time worth? Policing the site is time consuming, and I do it for free. So do the other mods, therefore, anything that allows me my time to not have to follow the spammers around and constantly dump chumps is worthwhile to me!

    Or would you rather a site where you open a thread, and see a pornographic picture?

    Ultimately, however, the final decision on whether or not to charge membership dues are not up to me, I merely make my suggestions.

    If spam werent a problem we wouldnt be having this discussion at all, but, spam has become a problem. And its a problem that requires peoples time to eliminate the garbage from piling up on the site.

    People, any of you that sell on eBay pay a FEE to sell your wares on ebay,so, if we did charge a nominal membership fee, whats the problem? It isnt like we would be looking for $500/yr!

    I would never have known about my model 19's and the ultimate joy they have brought me without this site. If $25 per year is considered too much to consider for the value returned, then owning JBL's/Altecs is probably outside that person's affordability factor. Most of the time, I'm hearing how much stuff people here own in gear. Maybe selling something would free up some discretionary funds.

  6. #21
    Senior Member sourceoneaudio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    'twas meant to be playful - not mean spirited ...

    I do agree - I mark as much spam as I can see and I KNOW its got to be a pain for all the mods to keep up.



    $10 a year would be cheap enough to not lose those on a budget, but frankly, ANY price should be enough to keep out SPAMMERS - they rely on free access to make it worth their while.

    And if we want to send extra money, that option is always available, right??
    Heather,
    I know you were playing around. I was adding to the fun, all though the DONATION FILTER is a good idea.................. and I'm serious about that. I can read into fun no worries. Nice flower garden by the way.

    J/S-S1A
    Jeff-S1A

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Or, as another member posted - set it so the first posting requires a Mod approval to make it public ...
    I really like that idea! It would have avoided the single worst disaster this site has yet witnessed.

  8. #23
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard View Post
    I really like that idea! It would have avoided the single worst disaster this site has yet witnessed.
    Yes, that can work, and that is done on other sites too.

    Posts are submitted for moderator approval, then it goes from there. Once a newbie is known they can be taken off needing moderator approval, and spam never makes it out of the bullpen, but, this, too, requires someones time to do.
    scottyj

  9. #24
    Senior Member sourceoneaudio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott fitlin View Post
    Yes, that can work, and that is done on other sites too.

    Posts are submitted for moderator approval, then it goes from there. Once a newbie is known they can be taken off needing moderator approval, and spam never makes it out of the bullpen, but, this, too, requires someones time to do.

    That is how it is done on this site.

    http://www.diyaudio.com/


    I takes ten post to be cleared for landing. (unlimited use) They take donations as does this site, then they moderate up to your tenth post.



    J/S-S1A
    Jeff-S1A

  10. #25
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBLRaiser View Post
    This is just a joke, right? Aren't you the Beamer collector? Now you claim you are poor? Maybe we can take up a collection for you.
    Not that the question (or my answer) is germane to this discussion but....
    There are lots of collectors out there. Some of you collect Paragons, others collect L100s. I've owned JBLs longer than I've owned BMW's and I no longer have my first BMW, but I do have my first JBL.

    I believe you're discussing two different issues here. One is how to quash the sp*ammers. The other is how to fund this site. One solution may do both but don't confuse the issues or assume a financial status for others in which you may be fortunate enough to find yourselves. Since it was my suggestion to have a new member's first post fall under moderation (not the first time I've suggested it), and that seems to have garnered support from others here, I'd love to hear from the revered (and I mean that sincerely) Mods as to how such an idea might be administered given this site's format and architecture. Enough about Marxian economics. I enjoy my cheap JBLs at least as much as you fortunate ones enjoy yours...maybe even that much more!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    The other is how to fund this site.
    Actually that is probably John and Ann's decision as well as Don's. Don, Steve, Steve and my time have been free of charge as has been the admin and mod staff.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard View Post
    Actually that is probably John and Ann's decision as well as Don's. Don, Steve, Steve and my time have been free of charge as has been the admin and mod staff.
    All true and appreciated, not to mention many labors of love like Glen's (and others like Hanspeter) registry and so on.

    Earl brings up many good points, though keeping the site nonprofit makes things more difficult than otherwise. Many nonprofit entities also charge membership fees, but it does make the bookkeeping a whole lot more complicated than just taking donations. We don't want to start listing assets and appraising the value of in kind services, etc. Keep it simple.

    Moderation of new members' posts would be one solution and would take less time than searching for and deleting new spam accounts each day. All posts from members under a certain posting threshold would automatically queue up in a folder before being allowed on the site.

    It needs to be more than a single post, though, and that increases the workload somewhat. If my first post is "Hi, I'm supertweeter1 and I'm new to the site. Thought I'd say hello." What's a mod going to do? It seems okay, so it gets posted and I'm now in the clear. My second post: "Viagra, cialis, and more at Canadian pharmacy prices. Click here: XXXXXXXX."


  13. #28
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sourceoneaudio View Post
    That is how it is done on this site.

    http://www.diyaudio.com/

    I takes ten post to be cleared for landing. (unlimited use)

    J/S-S1A

    I've noticed, and I'll re-iterate...

    Most all of the forums I've visited include some sort of paid advertising. Either a "vendors" section or banner ad links or such.

    I don't know what arrangement Don has with Harman, but couldn't it be possible that if Don were to start making a profit, the Harman attorney's might come calling asking for their share?...or cease and desist.

    This is a manufacturer-specific site that covers current product too, and that could lead to Harman wanting control of everything....intellectual property.... including revenue.

    Any thoughts on this, or am I way off-base?

    Here come the replies....
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  14. #29
    Senior Member kingjames's Avatar
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    I think the info on this site should only be available to it's members (paid members).I have changed my views on this subject for the following reasons.

    1. The info obtained here through our discussions have driven the prices through the roof on ebay and I think we are somewhat the cause of people parting out complete system's. I am guilty of this as I have parted a few pairs recently on the bay. I felt the cabinets were beyond repair but I am no woodworker and maybe this should be left to the experts in wood working.

    2.This is an apprasial house whether you like it or not.People come here to see what their stuff is worth then realize through our discussions that it is easy to part stuff out on the bay and make huge sums. They are not interested in discussions and their only involvement is to learn what they can get for something.This would be eliminated by a fee.

    3.Spammers like it here because they know there is a good number of people here at any given time. This would be eliminated by a fee.

    4.All you have to do is look on ebay and see how many system's are being parted out,quite a few lately and it's going up every week. Where do you think they get their info from? You don't even have to be a member here and you get free apprasial's just by reading.This has to stop or there ain't gonna be no JBL'S to buy (complete systems anyway).

    5.This site is the best in the business where JBl is concerned,it even has more info then JBL's site.We are now in a world where the word Free has consequences.If you want to stop the upward prices of JBL parts, if you want to keep the remaining sytems together for future generations,if you want to restrict this info to a handful of people,then you must charge a fee to eliminate the people who's only interest in JBl ,is monetary.

  15. #30
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Moderation of new members' posts would be one solution and would take less time than searching for and deleting new spam accounts each day.
    Enable the post reporting function. Members can make the moderators' task easier using that.

    20 reports on a post, and it's likely to be spam.

    [Or Storm behavin' badly.... ]

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