Chinese Beryllium diaphragms

[mech986]

They "Be" foil Good one!

Bart

[Zilch]

So, the information on PSW, allegedly from Dave Wheeler, is bogus? :dont-know

[Steve Schell]

I have been told that the TAD Be diaphragms are made by forming a copper diaphragm pressing, vapor depositing a layer of Be on it, then chemically eroding way the copper to produce the finished diaphragm. No wonder they cost so much.

The Brush Wellman supplied JBL Be diaphragms are pressed from sheet Be, possibly alloyed with something else to aid in the forming process... not sure about this.

[edgewound]

So, the information on PSW, allegedly from Dave Wheeler, is bogus? :dont-know

Dave is a great guy. He's a Customer Service Rep, not a JBL Design Engineer.
Dave might not really know the whole story...and...it's possible he was misquoted. Geez...that never happens on the internet .

Go back up to my first post and click on the Brush-Wellman link.

Read up on their Be papers.

Then...go the the reprints form "Voice Coil" magazine and read up.

After that, you'll know more than most.

[johnaec]

There is a new thread at ProSoundWeb with corrections forwarded from JBL's Dave Wheeler on beryllium diaphragms: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/22978/8370/

Apparently the 2435HPL diaphragms ARE pure beryllium, or at least 98% - no titanium whatsoever. More details in that thread...

John

[scott fitlin]

I have been told that the TAD Be diaphragms are made by forming a copper diaphragm pressing, vapor depositing a layer of Be on it, then chemically eroding way the copper to produce the finished diaphragm. No wonder they cost so much.

The Brush Wellman supplied JBL Be diaphragms are pressed from sheet Be, possibly alloyed with something else to aid in the forming process... not sure about this.

Yeah, when JBL introduced drivers with Be diaphragms TAD made a big deal about the fact that they sputter their material to form the diaphragm, and everyone else cold rolled them.

The vacuum deposition method is considerably more expensive to do.

[loach71]

A sad corollary to globalization.
Just like the melamine scandal.
Caveat emptor...

[edgewound]

There's a couple of points to be made here.

Firstly, is the speed at which mis-information travels on the internet, especially when the dissemination of the information comes from further than firsthand communications...in other words speaking directly with the source, and quoting said source in most accurate context...which would be the truth.

Secondly, if this country continues to rely on lesser industrialized non-democracies to supply us with goods that are far less costly and substandard quality-wise than domestically produced goods....we will continue to be swindled, poisoned, and ultimately the whole population potentially killed off by organizations that simply want to do it cheaper... and do not adhere to any ethical standards regarding product safety and intended use.

People in Panama were killed by ingesting what were supposed to be human medicines containing glycerine. Turns out the meds contained glycol..yep....antifreeze. A Chinese company is the source.....OOPS!

Here's the story:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18518915/

[4313B]

Firstly, is the speed at which mis-information travels on the internet, especially when the dissemination of the information comes from further than firsthand communications...in other words speaking directly with the source, and quoting said source in most accurate context...which would be the truth.

It also helps if the deliverers of information aren't goofballs posting gushing gagfests like "simply the best speaker engineer that ever lived". I took a few minutes to read over that website and now I don't feel so bad about this one. Don is right - over time these things just degenerate into a morass of bullshit full of people with bankrupt lives.

[Thom]

This will probably get me shot by any one but Zilch because if he goes "commie" hunting he'll probably find real ones carrying signs on his corner. I've been to Berkly. One of the problems of capitalism is the most important thing is to get people to buy your widget. If you have to make it better for them to buy it, you make it better. If you have to say it is made of a specific material for them to buy it then you say it is. If you can get fined if you say it and it isn't true, you figure what the fine would cost. How likely you are to get caught. What it would cost to really make it from that material and you make a decision. This is not an accusation aimed directly at JBL. I have no information about them and I'm not saying that they do this but big business does do this on a regular basis. With some other economic system, perhaps what products are and what they are made of, could just be factually stated. You wouldn't hear "proprietary information" Someone running a sound company could actually have as their goal, to make the best sound as opposed to the best selling. Today if your goal as a business is to make the best product and you take your eye off the money you will probably go broke.

[scott fitlin]

This will probably get me shot by any one but Zilch because if he goes "commie" hunting he'll probably find real ones carrying signs on his corner. I've been to Berkly. One of the problems of capitalism is the most important thing is to get people to buy your widget. If you have to make it better for them to buy it, you make it better. If you have to say it is made of a specific material for them to buy it then you say it is. If you can get fined if you say it and it isn't true, you figure what the fine would cost. How likely you are to get caught. What it would cost to really make it from that material and you make a decision. This is not an accusation aimed directly at JBL. I have no information about them and I'm not saying that they do this but big business does do this on a regular basis. With some other economic system, perhaps what products are and what they are made of, could just be factually stated. You wouldn't hear "proprietary information" Someone running a sound company could actually have as their goal, to make the best sound as opposed to the best selling. Today if your goal as a business is to make the best product and you take your eye off the money you will probably go broke.

Marketing 101, right?

[edgewound]

Thom,

I tried to read what you just wrote....and try to understand it.

American companies can be sued out of existance if they knowingly lie to their customers. It's called "fraud", and last I heard it is illegal in this country to totally misrepresent your product.

The ProSound Web thread on JBL 2435's was pure and simple stupidity.

China plays by a different set of rules than we do. Just look at the piracy of intellectual property vis a vis DVD movies and Microsoft software just to name two.

When it comes to selling diaphragms that are purported to be beryllium and they are tested to be devoid of beryllium that's pure and simple fraud, which is a crime in this country.

When a chemical company sells a poisonous chemical that's misrepresented as an ingredient for medicine, that's murder.

At the risk of going too far off topic in this thread, I'll stop here.