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  1. #31
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Hell bent is a bit strong - all I can say is I read what was you typed.

    Sorry - I never said you took it as reality, I reading your sentence "Well it seems to me that is what's coming" and simply figured it was too much worrying about a non-reality.

    I'll delete all my post - its obvious to me that you are bent on this forum issue and no sensible talk from me will sway you from your righteous indignation.

    Checks and Balances indeed. What ARE you talking about - its not the Constitution, its just a web forum! Sorry to trouble you.
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
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  2. #32
    Senior Member kingjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Hell bent is a bit strong - all I can say is I read what was you typed.

    Sorry - I never said you took it as reality, I reading your sentence "Well it seems to me that is what's coming" and simply figured it was too much worrying about a non-reality.

    I'll delete all my post - its obvious to me that you are bent on this forum issue and no sensible talk from me will sway you from your righteous indignation. Checks and Balances indeed. What ARE you talking about - its not the Constitution, its just a web forum! Sorry to trouble you.

    But please beware - I think the squirrel avenger has more problems than we can solve by discussing the forum sanely -
    and he's liable to get the whole forum stuffed if he keeps threatening to tear up some cars in revenge.
    heather,it's not what you say it's how you say it.I try never to take things personally,words do not bother me,damn,hell bent should not be words to describe one's attitude. I still think you're the best senorita member on this board.Be happy!

    Note.. The squirrel avenger I believe is doing his thing on his terms>

  3. #33
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    I should really like to see Don's comment about this. His contribution will surly make me decide if I shall come back to LHF or stay out.

    The latest comments made by boputnam is at best a defence for the censorship going on for to long her.

    I guess the final message will be: "do it my way (that is the moderators ++), or stay out".

    In Europe these ways of doing things like this ended in 1989 when the Berlin wall fell apart.
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  4. #34
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    I would be in favor of OT being restored if Rolf were the moderator.

    [That means read every friggin' word.... ]

  5. #35
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    I would be in favor of OT being restored if Rolf were the moderator.

    [That means read every friggin' word.... ]
    And what exactly do you mean by that Zilch? I am not sure if your comment it is positive or negative.
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  6. #36
    Senior Member JBLRaiser's Avatar
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    Can we make this a sticky?

    Just for posterity. Almost as good as OT forum.

  7. #37
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
    I should really like to see Don's comment about this.
    The only time I saw Don really lose his temper, was in the OT section - and it happened maybe three times. Matter of fact, that was about the time he quit posting. Coincidence, maybe, but certainly circumstantial...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
    His contribution will surly make me decide if I shall come back to LHF or stay out.
    OK

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
    The latest comments made by boputnam is at best a defence for the censorship going on for to long her.
    Rolf, dood, your words are very harsh. You are bitter about something that you are not saying or is not from here. We never try to censor - we work very hard to not censor. I take umbrage to your comment and am sad you rate our effort as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
    I guess the final message will be: "do it my way (that is the moderators ++), or stay out".
    That is a bitter and glass-half-full way of seeing it. There is plenty to do here, and all of it (now) JBL and audio related. Have some fun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
    In Europe these ways of doing things like this ended in 1989 when the Berlin wall fell apart.
    Dood. Take a bath. Drink some wine. Enjoy with your physical friends the time we have returned to you by obliterating OT. If you have vision, you will see the wall has actually come down, and we are now all together here.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  8. #38
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    The only time I saw Don really lose his temper, was in the OT section - and it happened maybe three times. Matter of fact, that was about the time he quit posting. Coincidence, maybe, but certainly circumstantial...
    I can only guess what made him lose his temper, and quit posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Rolf, dood, your words are very harsh. You are bitter about something that you are not saying or is not from here. We never try to censor - we work very hard to not censor. I take umbrage to your comment and am sad you rate our effort as such.
    I am normally a quiet and "nice" guy, not speaking harsh words. Bitter about something I am not saying, or not from here? I do not know what you are talking about.

    But in this (and a few other situations) I am really pi&st off. What has been done, and most of all the way it has been done is subject to criticism.

    I appreciate the effort being done by the moderators, but in this case everything has been done wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    That is a bitter and glass-half-full way of seeing it. There is plenty to do here, and all of it (now) JBL and audio related. Have some fun...

    Dood. Take a bath. Drink some wine. Enjoy with your physical friends the time we have returned to you by obliterating OT. If you have vision, you will see the wall has actually come down, and we are now all together here.
    That is one point of view. The other one is mine, and many others that are afraid to speak their minds, afraid that they will be banned from this site. I'm not, because if that happen, I know.

    A while ago the site celebrated member no. 5000. How many of them do you think wanted to keep the OT forum?

    It was my plan to donate a certain amount every year to this site, as I believe it is needed to keep it going. Now I am not sure if it is worth it.
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
    It was my plan to donate a certain amount every year to this site, as I believe it is needed to keep it going. Now I am not sure if it is worth it.
    C'mon! Are you saying the dozens of JBL sections here aren't worth the single OT forum??? 'Sounds like the JBL portion is insignificant to you...

    John

  10. #40
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Heya Bo - I think I get the point - the site is here to support Lansing related products. It covers a lot of ground to do that, and even lets us compare stuff to other brands not directly in the Lansing lines ... but thats really the main point. You can't be all things to everyone - and its probably not right to encourage everyone who comes here to join. Its not the right kind of place for everyone - and I don't mean snobbery or anything like that, I just mean the purpose may not be what some folks would want to talk about.

    You mods are volunteers and have a limited amount of time to be here - time that comes out of your day, or your night, or time you maybe would rather spend offline listening, or having a beer, or relaxing ...

    Things that make this place less fun make it harder to keep it going - some of the endless fights and bickering didn't really have anything to do with audio gear - but had to be handled. And often got in the way of folks having a good conversation.

    Some folks won't like that and will name-call or go find some other forum - maybe one more like a chat room and less like a technical resource.

    But you just can't be everything to everyone - thanks for being honest about what its about.
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
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  11. #41
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    Stick a fork in it (The Off Topic forum). If this is a poll then my vote is that the off topic being gone is a good thing. Sometimes reading the off topic forum was like being a storm watcher.

  12. #42
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    Stick a fork in it (The Off Topic forum). If this is a poll then my vote is that the off topic being gone is a good thing. Sometimes reading the off topic forum was like being a storm watcher.
    So why do you bother reading it?
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  13. #43
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    I don't know......I guess I'm one of those people that just has to look at the car wreck even though I know it's awful and could scar my memory for life.

  14. #44
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    Doomed to repeat the past

    Ignore history and all that, eh wot?

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=9697

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=8933

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=9533

    Let's call what we have here a "community." OK? The core value of this community is the Lansing Heritage, which includes Lansing Manufacturing, Altec Lansing, and JBL. So far, so good.

    Now if we only had three forums, we'd be a pure community:
    1. Lansing Product General Information
    2. Lansing Product Technical Help
    3. Lansing Product Marketplace

    However, a lot of enthusiasts want to "improve" on the Lansing Heritage through DIY projects, or perhaps they even argue that DIY is the truest form of the Lansing Heritage today, so we allow this:
    4. Lansing Product DIY

    Of course, that's all a bit finite and dry, unless we can add into the mix the other parts of the audio stream that lead up to the Altecs, JBLs, or whatever, so we need to add this:
    5. Lansing Related Gear

    Of course, if we do that, then what about the purpose of the audio stream? Gotta be able to talk about that:
    6. Music

    So suddenly we see that the community is not a monolithic ideology, but a common core appreciation of the Lansing Heritage and how it adds to each individual's musical aesthetic. Oh my, it's a place of diversity!

    Well, how can we address some of the technical and theoretical approaches we take, because that will, after all, shed light on our different applications and preferences for Lansing Heritage products and ideas. Oh, I know—this:
    7. General Audio Discussion

    And if there's some non-Lansing Heritage item that a member wants to buy or sell, that might enhance or offer an alternative to the Lansing Heritage experience, well then we need this:
    8. General Audio Marketplace

    Well, Aphrodite, our community is a long way from a pure Lansing Heritage environment now. It's all about degrees of separation, I suppose.

    OK, some non-Lansing Heritage content is inevitable. After all we have to manage the site's forums, and that can't be done by talking about JBLs and Altecs.
    9. Forum Information
    10. Forum Feedback (probably where this thread should be judging by its content)

    And maybe a not-so-obvious area, based on its encouragement to offer events, meetings, and birthday wishes:
    11. Forum Announcements (more like Member Announcements and Greetings, really)

    Finally, since this is a community and it intentionally moved to diversify itself in order to reflect the interests of the members beyond pure Lansing Heritage, what about a place for all other communication so as not to burden the other threads with distractions? Ah, how about this:
    12. Off Topic

    For better or worse, this is the form that the community was given, and once given, it should not unilaterally be taken back. That's probably the rub of the issue for me.

    I'm not worried about censorship, exclusion of members, democracy, or even free speech. This is not a democratic institution, and the posting guidelines clearly limit "freedom of speech" in a reasonable and site-specific way. This helps define the community standards.

    However, I am disappointed when a decision is taken to reduce the ability of the community to express itself and to communicate in ways that were previously allowed without any discussion. Judging by the volume of posts, one of the more popular forums was Off Topic.

    There were a number of ways we might have discussed modifying the OT area without killing it lock, stock, and barrel. However, that discussion will not take place, and the seemingly arbitrary decision is made. The deed is done.

    You guys provide a valuable role here without getting much credit, and I thank you for your dedication and contribution. This time I think you missed it.

  15. #45
    Senior Member JBLRaiser's Avatar
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    Instead of calling it 'off topic', couldn't we give it

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Ignore history and all that, eh wot?

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=9697

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=8933

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=9533

    Let's call what we have here a "community." OK? The core value of this community is the Lansing Heritage, which includes Lansing Manufacturing, Altec Lansing, and JBL. So far, so good.

    Now if we only had three forums, we'd be a pure community:
    1. Lansing Product General Information
    2. Lansing Product Technical Help
    3. Lansing Product Marketplace

    However, a lot of enthusiasts want to "improve" on the Lansing Heritage through DIY projects, or perhaps they even argue that DIY is the truest form of the Lansing Heritage today, so we allow this:
    4. Lansing Product DIY

    Of course, that's all a bit finite and dry, unless we can add into the mix the other parts of the audio stream that lead up to the Altecs, JBLs, or whatever, so we need to add this:
    5. Lansing Related Gear

    Of course, if we do that, then what about the purpose of the audio stream? Gotta be able to talk about that:
    6. Music

    So suddenly we see that the community is not a monolithic ideology, but a common core appreciation of the Lansing Heritage and how it adds to each individual's musical aesthetic. Oh my, it's a place of diversity!

    Well, how can we address some of the technical and theoretical approaches we take, because that will, after all, shed light on our different applications and preferences for Lansing Heritage products and ideas. Oh, I know—this:
    7. General Audio Discussion

    And if there's some non-Lansing Heritage item that a member wants to buy or sell, that might enhance or offer an alternative to the Lansing Heritage experience, well then we need this:
    8. General Audio Marketplace

    Well, Aphrodite, our community is a long way from a pure Lansing Heritage environment now. It's all about degrees of separation, I suppose.

    OK, some non-Lansing Heritage content is inevitable. After all we have to manage the site's forums, and that can't be done by talking about JBLs and Altecs.
    9. Forum Information
    10. Forum Feedback (probably where this thread should be judging by its content)

    And maybe a not-so-obvious area, based on its encouragement to offer events, meetings, and birthday wishes:
    11. Forum Announcements (more like Member Announcements and Greetings, really)

    Finally, since this is a community and it intentionally moved to diversify itself in order to reflect the interests of the members beyond pure Lansing Heritage, what about a place for all other communication so as not to burden the other threads with distractions? Ah, how about this:
    12. Off Topic

    For better or worse, this is the form that the community was given, and once given, it should not unilaterally be taken back. That's probably the rub of the issue for me.

    I'm not worried about censorship, exclusion of members, democracy, or even free speech. This is not a democratic institution, and the posting guidelines clearly limit "freedom of speech" in a reasonable and site-specific way. This helps define the community standards.

    However, I am disappointed when a decision is taken to reduce the ability of the community to express itself and to communicate in ways that were previously allowed without any discussion. Judging by the volume of posts, one of the more popular forums was Off Topic.

    There were a number of ways we might have discussed modifying the OT area without killing it lock, stock, and barrel. However, that discussion will not take place, and the seemingly arbitrary decision is made. The deed is done.

    You guys provide a valuable role here without getting much credit, and I thank you for your dedication and contribution. This time I think you missed it.
    A catchy name like, oh....'Dark side of the Moon'. Still maintaining the musical theme, yet with a bit more of an attitude for those of us with more than just JBL and Altec on our minds. By the way, I was given a warning not to call Al Gore a BASTARD anymore and I haven't. I'd say the system was working.

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