Looky What I just got - Those Darned L200 Cabs (from Aberdeen)

[yggdrasil]

Now that is a beautiful looking horn. I bet it sounds good to!

[Robh3606]

Heather, sorry for all of the noise here, but if we eliminate all of it a number of people will inevitably get upset with our "censorship."

Hello All

I dumped the posts. I figured those involved would understand. This post will self destruct in a day or so.

Rob

[hjames]

Thanks for the thread cleanup, guys -- I really appreciate it!

Ok, back to the topic. We went to the Celtic festival near Richmond last weekend (oct 24-25) and I came back with some Celtic Rock CDs - Rathkeltair is a fusion power trio with bagpipes, and Barleyjuice is a larger band - lets call them alt-trad ... drinkin' songs with an edge ... (they did a medley of London Calling, Whiskey Bar, and Folsom Prison last week that just wowed the crowd!)

Anyway, between them and a couple of the Beatles remasters that came in, I sat down last Monday for some listening time, cranked it up a bit, and realized something wasn't right. Seemed like the sound "crashed" when I turned it up - argh, distortion! - I figured I must have gotten something wrong when I moved all the drivers into the new cabinets a few weeks back. It wasn't the new Smith horns, I just haven't had much time for attentive listening on that system for in a while ... sigh ...

I also considered that when I'd put the grey smith horns on that system, I'd used the (spare) 2420s that came out of my 4341s.
The sound we had enjoyed so long with those L200 3ways had been using the 2420s that were still mounted to the short horns in the cabinet. The ones I pulled from the 4341s "should" be the same, but I haven't pulled them down to check diaphrams or anything.
Frankly, there's no need to leave the original ones in the cabinet, except to plug the hole in the baffle they'd leave if I took them out.
But they're expensive to use as hole-plugs, and they don't need to left in be there with the Smith horns on top. Only drivers in use in that cabinet is the woofer and the slot tweeters - may as well pull the LE85s!

So, I grabbed some small planks of 3/4 MDF from another project, got some 1/4 x 20 pemnuts from Home Despot, and made a pair of blocking plates to mount against the inside of the baffleboard and cover using the existing countersunk phillips screws that held the horns in place.

I printed out the schematic for the 3133 Equivalent circuits I built a couple years ago, (thanks again 4313b!) laid the cabinets out on their backs, and pulled the 2234 woofers so I could access everything.

Found what looked like a loose soldier joint on the stacked resistors, so I reflowed that, and also saw the 2405 slot was connected normally, when the schematic shows it connected reverse-polarity, compared to the other two drivers. So - I reversed the 2405 connections, did a quick check, and closed them both up.

After that I pulled the original 2420s off the short horns, and swapped them onto the new Walnut smith horns. I put some blue masking tape over the other ones that started in the 4341s I got - I'll put them aside for now - maybe I'll ship them out for remag and rebuild at some point.

By that time it was late in the day, and the little kiddos would be due soon, so I didn't get a chance for a long test, but I dropped on Beatles Past masters (Remastered), played Daytripper with some volume, and cranked balance from full left to full right - OMG - they didn't sound very good - and they sounded VERY different from each other!!!

Thought a bit, and, on a hunch, I put the Carver receiver into MONO and tried again - NOW they sounded nearly identical.
Darned early Beatles stuff with their overly dramatic separation.

It was 6PM by then, and nearly Halloween candytime for the munchkins, so I turned off the amps and put the candy bowl by the door. Afterwards we watched some movies downstairs on the other system, checked the forum late night, and headed to bed.

Its relatively early, but once we've had some breakfast I'll do some more testing at volume and see what we've got.

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, Heather, and All,

First, many thanks for the clean-up of this otherwise outstanding thread.

Second, Heather, I'm sorry that you've experienced some bumps along the JBL Nirvana Highway! That's got to be disappointing, at the least. But, you will find the problem, I'm sure, and once corrected, things will most certainly be as they should be.

Quite a few years ago, I dragged my own 2420's out of storage, and hooked them up to a pair of Community horns that I'd just gotten at a local swap meet (for $20), I was crossing them over with my old Crown VFX-2A crossover, and using an HK receiver for the top, and a Crown DC300 for the bottom stuff. At low volume, they sounded very nice, indeed. But, as I played around with it, more, I found that as you say, "something wasn't right". It turned out to be one of the 2420's, which sounded a bit grainy as soon as any real volume was sent it's way. The distortion was not continuous, and it sort of came and went, as I continued to fiddle with it. But, in frustration and more than a bit of sadness, I took everything down and put my once wonderful 2420's in a box, with that one labeled "bad".

Then, years later, I joined this wonderful forum, and told the basic story of my "problem child" driver. Someone asked me if I'd cleaned the gap in the driver, and I had to admit that I had not done so. I was told that dust could get into that gap, over the years, and could possibly cause the sort of problem I'd experienced. I'm more than a little embarrassed to admit that I STILL haven't done that, and that my poor 2420 driver is still in the questionable column for using.....

But, maybe this is something that might work for you. Something to consider, anyway. I wish you outstanding luck in sussing out the problem, whatever it turns out to be, and hope that you are soon back in the JBL Catbird Seat, enjoying the wonders of your system!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[demon]

congrats on those beautiful horns heather!!
i see that this is some very fine furniture, but i have to say that i also liked the industrial variants you had in use before. they had a certain rugged charme. also the external tweeter, uhm, or quacker, was a sympathetic appearance.

hope you get to eliminate your distortion-problem soon.
cheers,
mikey

[hjames]

Okay - I got a better pair of L200 cabinets a few months back and moved all my drivers into those newer cabinets. I'll keep the best of the old pair - my long term plan is to have a set of 3 of these L200s for my fronts and center, and I can use other speakers for surrounds.
But - I only have a pair of the chocolate brown grill foams - and I'll need a set of 3.

Tried to get a matched 3rd, but getting a single grill at this point, there was no guarantee the color would be a match ...

So, I opted to get a fresh matched set of 3, and I'll sell off the chocolate set of 2 - its got virtually no wear, its just a bit over 1 year old ...

When I fixed up a set of L100s a year or so back, I went for a charcoal grey set of foams. Those looked nice, but - this time, I decided to go with a rich black set ...

So, I put in my order a week back with Foamtrends, and just got a set of 3 in the mail today. I just swapped the left one (have to attach the velcro to install it properly) - but - what do you think? I think they look great in black!

Course, now I need to get good set of drivers to build the 3rd cabinet!
(not right away, of course, no room right now)

[grumpy]

Black suits those L200's well ... a conservative/traditional but clean look.

[boputnam]

Darned early Beatles stuff with their overly dramatic separation.

It's worse than that. It's not really stereo, it's more dual mono! The worst. It's tragic their best material remains mixed in that way...

Great story tho - good of you to think of that!

[4343]

It's worse than that. It's not really stereo, it's more dual mono! The worst. It's tragic their best material remains mixed in that way...

Great story tho - good of you to think of that!

I kinda like it that way. Back when their stuff was new, I remember listening in 'phones and drawing a diagram of the mix. Bass in the middle, drums off to one side, guitars on the other. I remember thinking it was a perfect mix... (Didn't know it was just re-channeled from the 3-track...)

Wanna here some separation, turn the balance while playing Credence's Suzy Q.

[brad347]

It's worse than that. It's not really stereo, it's more dual mono! The worst. It's tragic their best material remains mixed in that way...

Well if it matters (for the sake of conversation), I feel slightly differently.

To me, that stuff "is what it is." it's a product of the times, and the recordings are a document not only of the music but also the way rock n' roll was made in the UK in Britain's rock n' roll infancy.

I don't really see it as "tragic." To me, what would be tragic would be someone re-mixing the catalog to bring it up to "modern" standards of stereophony (but that is just my opinion). I think there was a recent re-release of the material where someone tried to "modernize" it (cringe-worthy, for me).

Each decision made by Sir George Martin and the Beatles at that time was made in the moment. It's quite unconventional (read: "wrong") but the resulting music was great, so I'd personally rather enjoy it in that context.

Not that I believe in the stuff being sacred or whatever (I know that some people do), I just believe in accepting half-century old music as it is, as opposed to re-writing it. Because those recordings represent part of the infancy in ROCK music (well after Les Paul, Varese, and Ligeti of course) of using the recording studio as an instrument, to create soundscapes that did not represent true-to-life sound-pictures but rather fantastic/fanciful/fictional ones.

It was an experimental time and a big part of the interest of listening to those recordings for me is that spirit of exploration and a touch of charming naivete. It's "personality."

Maybe not the best stuff to put on to highlight our carefully-crafted high fidelity systems, but surely very cool music with a very cool vibe and a palpable sense of "being in the room." Except in this case the "room" is Abbey Road instead of a concert hall, and there are young people in there, naive to the "rules" of the recording, just experimenting, playing, and trying stuff out. But you can feel the personality and you feel like you're "there." And that kind of stuff is part of why I listen to music in the first place.

The Beatles were not Franz Schubert, but-- I wouldn't be at all interested in someone else finishing the "Unfinished Symphony," and I likewise wouldn't have any interest in re-mixed Beatles with the stereophony "fixed."

Maybe that's just me though!!

[4313B]

The Beatles were not Franz Schubert, but--

They were a catalyst band. They inspired a ton of talent.

[brad347]

They were a catalyst band. They inspired a ton of talent.

That was in no way intended to disparage or minimize their contributions-- I was only trying to say it's "apples and oranges."

[hjames]

Okay, I've been watching for a while, and I just won a pair of 2445J drivers in auction ... hopefully they will survive the shipping ordeal and give a chance for better mids in the 3 way system with the walnut horns ...

So you are saying forget the 2425s and adapters and just get a pair of the larger format drivers?

That's my feeling.

The smooth warm sound of the 2397 just didn't happen with the adapters and smaller drivers. I was using LE85s, but that shouldn't make a difference.

Widget

[hjames]

Package came today, 2 drivers. Box was marked 72 lbs - gawd,
The seller built a wooden box and bolted them to a plank.

I put a bottle of Feed'n'Wax on the floor next to them for comparison -
these things are HUGE - I had NO IDEA ...
Sad thing is I have a busy weekend and no time to play with audio ... sigh.

Besides, I'll have to find some way to lift up my walnut horns up so I can
get room enough to get these things on the back ...

[timc]

Cute drivers