+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 219

Thread: Looky What I just got - Those Darned L200 Cabs (from Aberdeen)

  1. #31
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC 'burbs
    Posts
    7,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Heather

    If you really want to drive yourself nuts give the PTH1010/2435 combo a spin with the 2123's. You would need to run it as a 3 way but it may be worth it for you to try out. Two ways are nice but nothing does the lower midrange like one of those JBL 10" drivers. I run my active set-up with the same combo and once you dial it in, it's makes a really nice sounding system. Food for thought!!

    Just have fun

    Rob
    Thanks for the tip. It sounds interesting - and I may be less inclined to go for that mythical 4 way sound now - but I think I need to swap the 2215s for 2235s before I do much more shuffling in the low end. That change looks like it would give me a lot more flexibility for crossover points and for absolute bottom frequency.

    Either that, or it would shake the cabinets into wood chips!
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  2. #32
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC 'burbs
    Posts
    7,452
    I figured what I needed to do late late last night, but it was too late and I had to wait for today to get back to it.

    The basic hookup is:
    VCR out from my receiver, runs to the inputs on the M552 Active crossover.
    Low outs run to the HK Citation 22 in Stereo mode 200w/ch direct to the 2215 woofers.
    Hi outputs run to the Sonic Impact T-amp 15w/ch - to the compensating network which goes to the 2435H compression drivers on the 100 degree horns.
    Surprisingly, there is plenty of power with the T-amp on the horns, and effortless bass with the HK power amp on the bottom. I found out the woofers played better in the L200 boxes than they ever did in the 4320 boxes - perhaps because the boxes were on low wheeled "skids" and now they are directly on the floor, but the bass is improved even beyond that with this biamp setup.
    I can't run DVD/movies due to my receiver's quirks, but I have listened to CDs, TV shows and "airtunes" fed from my Mac (11,000 songs in shuffle, not the Fred's system, but its not bad for 'umble folks with beer budgets).

    The tweeters are very nice - wish my woofers could play higher (I can see someday I'll be swapping the 2215s for 2235s), but even with that compromise, the music is very joyful. And - its nice to work the HK amp a bit - I wasn't pushing it at all before when I used it bridged for the subwoofer system!
    Now thats its working I'll have to give it a real workout tomorrow before Emma gets home (grin) - shake some dust out of the cabinets.

    Are there compromises? Sure - we've gotten spoiled with having a remote control to run everything, effortless hitting mute when the phone rings, or a commercial comes on the TV while watching a show. This is a very hands on manual system - the payoff is the enhanced sound quality.

    Now I want to try a passive crossover to get the two drivers working off a common amp - just to compare the sound.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Zilch makes CHAOS of Heather's listening room.

    Heh, heh.

    [She'll be up kinda late tonight.... ]
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  3. #33
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,985

    Thumbs up "Enhanced sound quality...."

    Your bass is better because your amp now has total control of those woofers. I noticed that immediately when switching to the biamp setup myself, even though I'm just using wimpy 40W per channel amps.

    I admit to having an ulterior motive in sending you that system to try: I'm hoping that once you get it all dialed in and balanced, you and Emma will give it some weeks of critical listening, assuming you like it enough to do so, a primary reason being that women hear differently than men, high frequencies, particularly.

    You're already experiencing the "ambience" of the 100° x 100° waveguides, no doubt. No "beaming" now; if it's all working correctly, you can hear and enjoy the full frequency spectrum from just about everywhere in the room, standing, sitting, or walking around. There's still an imaging "sweet spot," but it should be somewhat more diffuse than before.

    Do you miss the slot? Are the highs smooth and "natural" sounding? Do you perceive any harshness? Are the mids better than the 2420s and exponential horns produced? I'm very interested in what you hear in the system, and of course, what you ultimately conclude....

  4. #34
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC 'burbs
    Posts
    7,452
    If I don't match the levels just right, the horns do pop out and the sound gets "shallow" - but otherwise it is very pleasant. I tried to run the crossover down to 800Hz, but it does sound a bit better crossed over at 1200 or so. I'll have to try more this evening - give you more specifics.

    Emma says she although she hasn't listened to any of her specific favorite
    music yet, she does notice and appreciate the difference compared to slots and expo horns.

    Of course now I have to buy another 2235, steal the one from the B380, and try this again with them on the bottom.

    Oh - and I'm going to be sending you $21.00 for a yard of Zilch cloth. Got enough left from the last round for one speaker but I really need to cover the grills frames I made - Phil got the other set with the 4320 cabinets (they didn't really fit the L200s anyway).

    Thanks for the enlightenment, oh Zilch-master, educating us in the ways of sound.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Your bass is better because your amp now has total control of those woofers. I noticed that immediately when switching to the biamp setup myself, even though I'm just using wimpy 40W per channel amps.

    I admit to having an ulterior motive in sending you that system to try: I'm hoping that once you get it all dialed in and balanced, you and Emma will give it some weeks of critical listening, assuming you like it enough to do so, a primary reason being that women hear differently than men, high frequencies, particularly.

    You're already experiencing the "ambience" of the 100° x 100° waveguides, no doubt. No "beaming" now; if it's all working correctly, you can hear and enjoy the full frequency spectrum from just about everywhere in the room, standing, sitting, or walking around. There's still an imaging "sweet spot," but it should be somewhat more diffuse than before.

    Do you miss the slot? Are the highs smooth and "natural" sounding? Do you perceive any harshness? Are the mids better than the 2420s and exponential horns produced? I'm very interested in what you hear in the system, and of course, what you ultimately conclude....
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  5. #35
    Senior Member sourceoneaudio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    I figured what I needed to do late late last night, but it was too late and I had to wait for today to get back to it.

    The basic hookup is:
    VCR out from my receiver, runs to the inputs on the M552 Active crossover.
    Low outs run to the HK Citation 22 in Stereo mode 200w/ch direct to the 2215 woofers.
    Hi outputs run to the Sonic Impact T-amp 15w/ch - to the compensating network which goes to the 2435H compression drivers on the 100 degree horns.
    woofers played better in the L200 boxes than they ever did in the 4320 boxes - perhaps because the boxes were on low wheeled "skids" and now they are directly on the floor, but the bass is improved even beyond that with this biamp setup.
    I can't run DVD/movies due to my receiver's quirks, but I have listened to CDs, TV shows and "airtunes" fed from my Mac (11,000 songs in shuffle, not the Fred's system, but its not bad for 'umble folks with beer budgets).

    Morning Heather,
    Just a couple of tips for you. any time you raise a LF driver off of the ground no matter how high. ("woofers played better in the L200 boxes than they ever did in the 4320 boxes - perhaps because the boxes were on low wheeled "skids" and now they are directly on the floor, but the bass is improved even beyond that with this bi-amp setup.") you will loose bass response no matter how high off the ground so this move was a definite positive for you. Second as far as playback goes from your 11,000 song loaded in your mac, depending on the format used usually MP3 is the standard there is sufficient sound quality degradation because it is compressed/stepped on and it is unnatural. Usually losses noted will be in the high end and serious loss of clean bass.
    I'm curious to one other thing you mention about your woofers. They don't play loud enough. Are you looking for better/higher frequency response from the driver, or more output? (spl)


    J/S-S1A
    Jeff-S1A

  6. #36
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC 'burbs
    Posts
    7,452
    I didn't say the woofers don't play loud enough - gosh - I hardly warm up that 200 watt/ch HK amp now - the 2215s are plenty loud. I did mention they play much better with the biAmp than they did through my old passive 3 way setup (3133 Equiv circuits). But thats been discussed many times before in these forums.

    I mentioned swapping the 2215s for 2235s because of the improved frequency range of the newer 15 inch woofers (at least on paper). The 2235s are rated for lower and higher frequency than the 2215s - it sure sounded that way when I had the subwoofer in the system, you could hear the bottom open out when I powered it up, and it was a musically extended bottom, not just Boom box stuff.

    Now - these are ratings not absolute truth ...
    2215: 35-1200 cps - highest recommended crosspoint: 800
    2235: 20-2000 cps - highest recommended crosspoint: 1000
    and just for comparison - the stray 10" midBass drivers I have
    2123: 80-6000 cps - highest recommended crosspoint 1000

    I currently rip songs at the maximum 320kbps bitrate, which is a huge improvement over the itunes store default of 128 kbps. I do hear losses at the lowly 128 bitrate, but not at 320kbps. Of course, my ears aren't as young as they used to be, but when I really want to sit and appreciate music, I just pop a CD into the HK 5 disc changer and play that directly.
    And AAC isn't MP3, tho I have both in my digital library.
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  7. #37
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,985
    Do 2234Hs play well a little higher? They're 2235H without the mass ring. Only used in 4435 monitors, but there's been plenty of discussion of them in the forums.

    Rob or Giskard would likely know if they'd be a good alternative choice. Keep the B380 running for LFE, maybe.

    I'd make 2234Hs outta 2225s reconed; installing the mass ring later would convert them to 2235Hs if it didn't work for me.

    [Guess I could measure a couple and see. Maybe the curves are already posted here somewhere.... :dont-know ]

    Of note: 2234H is the recommended replacement woofer for the original L200, which was crossed at 1200 Hz:

    http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te...L200A%20ts.pdf

  8. #38
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC 'burbs
    Posts
    7,452
    We did some more critical listening today after work. I played Hillary Stagg - Sweet Return - its new-agey harp music with guitars, irish whistles, heavy bass swells - and Emma noticed this before I did ...

    When high pitched percussives plays, specifically triangles, (also those wind chime kind of things some drummers have hanging near them), you hear the attack as it is struck, but the shimmer afterwards isn't there. Its missing a kind of high frequency harmonic when the triangle (for instance) "rings" - its not quite the sizzle of the 2405s, but that shimmer is definately not there with the 2435 "flat horns".

    But its a real subtle thing ... and otherwise its a very sweet listening system.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Do 2234Hs play well a little higher? They're 2235H without the mass ring. Only used in 4435 monitors, but there's been plenty of discussion of them in the forums.

    Rob or Giskard would likely know if they'd be a good alternative choice. Keep the B380 running for LFE, maybe.

    I'd make 2234Hs outta 2225s reconed; installing the mass ring later would convert them to 2235Hs if it didn't work for me.

    [Guess I could measure a couple and see.... :dont-know ]
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  9. #39
    Senior Member Fred Sanford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley
    Posts
    1,608
    When high pitched percussives plays, specifically triangles, (also those wind chime kind of things some drummers have hanging near them), you hear the attack as it is struck, but the shimmer afterwards isn't there. Its missing a kind of high frequency harmonic when the triangle (for instance) "rings" - its not quite the sizzle of the 2405s, but that shimmer is definately not there with the 2435 "flat horns".
    That's something the 4333s have spoiled me on- the realism of well-recorded percussion and cymbals. I still like the dome tweeters I have (L110s and Cantons in particular), but haven't found a cone tweeter that sounds as accurate to me. Not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying that's were the cone tweeters I've been hearing have been disappointing me. One particular tune I've gone to a bunch lately for this is Seal's "Dreaming in Metaphors". Another great percussion & cymbals tune is Jan Garbarek's "Molde Canticle Pt. 4", with Manu Katche on drums and Nan Vasconcelos on percussion.

    This thread is really making me want to get bi-amping the 4333s higher up the priority list.

    je

  10. #40
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,985
    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    When high pitched percussives plays, specifically triangles, (also those wind chime kind of things some drummers have hanging near them), you hear the attack as it is struck, but the shimmer afterwards isn't there. Its missing a kind of high frequency harmonic when the triangle (for instance) "rings" - its not quite the sizzle of the 2405s, but that shimmer is definately not there with the 2435 "flat horns".
    Not sure I'm willing to buy "new-agey harp music" to track it down, but it may be that TOTL HF amp we're using there, too....

  11. #41
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC 'burbs
    Posts
    7,452
    C'mon - the total cost of that "Sonic Impact T-amp
    (based on Parts Express prices)
    60% for the amp ...
    40% for the power supply
    Total cost is around $50 - What's naught to like?



    BTW - check your PO box for an order for 1 yard of that dark blue cloth.
    I've gotta cover the frames I made before Catastrophy strikes ...

    Also watch your PO Box for a package from Amazon - a copy of that New Agey electro-harp CD is winging its way to you - gratis - - the intro to song 1 is impressive when the bass kicks in - or try halfway through track 1 with the triangles and wind chimes. Call it a test disc - worth hearing just for that porpoise.

    Anyway - here is a second tangent - I was reading your comments on the 2404 in another thread and had a thought. I don't think it would hurt anything if I put the original sound system back together (not biamped) but fed the 3133 equiv passive from the receiver, but connect the 100 degree flathorn to the UHF terminals where the 2405 would normally connect.

    I assume I would still use the compensating networks?

    I haven't done this yet, but I thought I should ask before trying something like this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Not sure I'm willing to buy "new-agey harp music" to track it down, but it may be that TOTL HF amp we're using there, too....
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  12. #42
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,985
    For the money, it seems like some "shimmer" is a small compromise. The chipheads will likely have some good options to offer. Chip amps come with the endorsement of heavyweights; we just need the specifics.

    The hookup you propose may work, though there may be too much attenuation and they won't play loud enough. Try it and see.

    Yes, you need the compensation filters in line.

    Thank you for the "test disc." I'll watch for it!

  13. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Of note: 2234H is the recommended replacement woofer for the original L200, which was crossed at 1200 Hz:
    Very interesting Zilch, I didn't know this. Thanks for the heads up.

    Heather, it sounds like you're having fun, good luck with your various iterations.

  14. #44
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC 'burbs
    Posts
    7,452
    Are these the same compensating filters I am using - or do you have a stack of them - the connectors look pretty similar!

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...&postcount=180

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    The hookup you propose may work, though there may be too much attenuation and they won't play loud enough. Try it and see.

    Yes, you need the compensation filters in line.

    Thank you for the "test disc." I'll watch for it!
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  15. #45
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,985
    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Are these the same compensating filters I am using - or do you have a stack of them - the connectors look pretty similar!
    Those are the ones I started with a couple of years ago, now.

    Here's the latest filters I sent you:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...0&postcount=43

    Dunno about a "stack," but several:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...2&postcount=72

    And here's performance of a bunch of eBay 2435HPLs using one:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...9&postcount=23

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts