2380A or 2385A

[Lutz]

Based on the fact that the 2380 has a 90 degree horz. despersion and the 2385 a 60 degree does anyone have any thoughts on which to use given the following :
room size 18" x 24'
X-over range for the horn is 1000hz to 6000hz

Thanks

[Baron030]

Hi Lutz

What other components are you planning on using with the 2300 or 2385 horn?
Something to consider is the dispersions characteristics of the other components.
If you try to match the horizontal dispersion of each of the components, then frequency response will be smoother off axis as well as on axis.

Baron030

[Lutz]

Baron030

For the Left & Right front are as follows

2404 JBL
2380 or 2385
EVM - 12L (12" EV pro line)
2226H 15" JBL

Thanks for your help
Lutz

[Baron030]

Hi Lutz

Assuming that you are planning on using the 2404 "Baby Butt" UHF driver.
Then I am not sure that any of the Flat-Front Bi-Radial Horns would be a good match as far as dispersion patterns are concerned.
The ideal match for the 2404 would be the 2344A Bi-Radial horn.
The 2344A and the 2404 both have the same 100 x 100 degree coverage.

But, assuming for a moment, that you really got your heart set on a 2" throat Flat-Front Bi-Radial Horn, then swapping out the 2404 for something else might be a better choice.

For the 2385A Horn, a 2402 "Bullet" UHF driver would be an excellent match.

And for the 2380a Horn there are several options, the 2405 "Slot" or the new 2407 with the right PT wave guide would be best.

Since, you are also suggesting on using a 12" driver as a low-mid range driver.
Then the 2380a might be better choice, as far as matching the 12" driver's dispersion characteristics at 1 KHz.

From a stand point of getting the most help on your project, I would seriously look into a 2380a, 2407/PT wave guide combination. Zilch has already done a lot of the hard work involved in designing a system around this pair.

Baron030

[Lutz]

Baron030

To give you a little more info, I am now using a SSD4001-8 Renkus-Heinz (2" throat) horn and considering replaceing it with the JBL horn we are discussing and a 2450 driver.

Orginally I paired up the Renkus-Heinz horn with a 2402 bullet (which I still have), but wasn't happy with the HF coverage. Thats why I changed to the baby-cheeks. Honestly, for me the 2402 sounded so much better in the "sweet spot" but I stuck with the 2404's because I felt I got better HF coverage in room as a whole. (The room is used as a Home Theater/Rock room )

Again thanks for your help
Lutz

[matsj]

Is it your setup in your avatar ? Can you post some pictures on it ?

I use 2382A horn with 2446h drivers in my ht. In my fronts also have 2 x 2226h and 077/ 2405h.

mats

[Lutz]

Yes that is the system, however it is in a different room/house now. (a smaller room) Sorry I dont have any more pic's and my wife has my camera and gone for the weekend. I will post pic's next week.

Sorry
Lutz

[Lutz]

Baron030,

One more thought!

I forgot I have a pair of 2425 drivers mounted on 2342 BiRadial 100 x 100 horns. These would match up with the 2404's but I have concern that at the high listening levels and my personal listening taste that they would compete with the 2" throat horn/drivers.

Any thoughts?

Lutz

[Blaster]

Lutz,
I had a similar setup that ended up as per side
2- 15" 2226h's
1- 12" 2202H
1- 2" 2446H on a 2382A
1-2404H tweeter

I don't think it was a ideal system but it had a lot of range. I was actively crossed about 100hz-1100hz-10,000hz with a BSS FDS-388.

I had 2380A's on the system initially and preferred the 2382A's. The 2382 matched up well with the 2404. I feel the shorter throw horns sound better in a room.

The delay due to driver distance needs attention on this system.

[Lutz]

Blaster,

Thanks for the reply, I didn't even think of a 2382A. Your right, it does match the 2404's. Let me give this some thought.

Also thanks for sharing your Xover points. I think based on what you are doing I will try moving my Xover point for my 2404 a little higher. You are using 10,000, I have been at 6000. Our others points are almost exactly the same.

Lutz

[Baron030]

Hi Lutz
I can fully understand what you mean by the 2402's "sweet spot".
Unfortunately, that "sweet spot" is pretty small.
But still, when you are listening in that spot, boy it's so sweet...
For room coverage, I can fully understand why you like the 2404 baby-cheeks.

After in taking into account your comments about room coverage.
I personally think that you would find that the 2385a has too narrow a coverage.
If you look at the frontal Isobar contour charts, within the 2385a horn's spec sheets, you will find that the dispersion pattern narrows as it goes higher in frequency.
Fortunately, most of this change is in it's vertical dispersion pattern. But there are still some small changes in the horizontal dispersion as well.
So, the 2385a is going to have a horizontal dispersion that is ever narrower then 60 degrees, at your 6 KHz higher crossover point. On the point of coverage, the 2380a would do a better job.

Others, have brought up the 2382a horn as a possibility.
Since, I am currently using a system with a 2226h, 2012h, 2382a/2446h, and a 2405.
I would strongly recommend going with a slightly higher crossover point of 1200Hz with the 2382a.
I found that with the electronic crossover at 1Kz, the horn did not sound at it’s best. The frequency response was a little choppy. And switching to 1200Hz cleared things up nicely.

It’s a shame that no one makes a 2” throat version of the 2344A bi-radial.
But, that would surely generate some comments like, “Wow, that’s a big ass horn.”.
And maybe, that explains why nobody makes a larger version of the 2344A.

Baron030

[Allanvh5150]

Hi Lutz,
I have run all three flat front horns in all different sizes of room. I agree that the 2385 is far too "long throw" for your room. The 2380 is nice but the 2382 is even better. I would go with the 2382/2445 combination with the "baby butt" coming in at 10K. Or, if you really like the 2402, run two of them with a 30-40 degree angle between them. I have done this and it sounds pretty darn good. Make sure that you run the 2382 all the way up and just bring the UHF in at 10k or 12k with a 6db rolloff just to fill in the top end. And for some strange reason, I have always prefered the old 2482 driver to the 2445's, but thats just me.
Allan.
P.S. Try an 800Hz crossover for the 2382.

[speakerdave]

It’s a shame that no one makes a 2” throat version of the 2344A bi-radial.
But, that would surely generate some comments like, “Wow, that’s a big ass horn.”.
And maybe, that explains why nobody makes a larger version of the 2344A.

Baron030

JBL does (or did) make large biradial horns of that type--the 2360 series. Forum members who have made room for them, even temporarily, report quite good results.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...360-series.htm

David

[subwoof]

One advantage not mentioned is the pattern control on the "large format" 2360 series over the flat-front 2380 series. This does make a difference when there aren't any reflective walls and the crossover point is low.

I have used nearly all 2" horns jbl has made in various projects and while the 2382 will give you the wide dispersion, the 235X series of 1.5" horns with the "throatless" drivers will give you much better results.

If you remove the snouts on your 2450's, you can bolt them onto 1.5" horns if you make adapter rings.

Here is a picture of a pair of 2450's with the snout removed and mated to a pair of DDS 2-90 horns that are very similar to the 2380 in pattern.

Should you consider a pair of the 2360's, I have a pair sitting in storage.

sub

[Zilch]

I'm lovin' 1.5" 2381s right now, enough so to cut them into my 432x or 4507 cabinets. 432x has space behind the grille to "advance" them for optimum time alignment, once I figure out exactly what that is.

90° x 50° pattern, 15" x 11" flange, ultra-low distortion....