not all high current amps are equal

[MJC]

We all know, generally speaking, that separates will produce a better soundstage, and overall sound, than integrated amps and both are better than receivers.

But my first thoughs of the difference, in db output, between a high current 85w amp(receiver) and a high current 100w amp would be about the same, as far as where the volume controls were set playing the same source, thru the same speakers in the same room.
I couldn't have been more wrong. Using a Denon 85w receiver, most lps were played with the volume at -10 ~ -7db, with half speed master recordings at -3 ~ 0db.

With the Citation 11 pre-amp/Citation 19 100w power amp I'm only around -18 ~ -12db, and that is peak, for the same half speed masters. Those numbers are according to the LED db meters. And that is producing around 85db at the seated position 9 ft away. Talk about having plenty of headroom to spare! And ya, the soundstage and overall sound is much improved.

[Mike Caldwell]

Hello
The position/db scale of the master volume control verses how loud the system is or when the amp reaches it's peak does not in it self tell anything about the amps output or headroom. An amplifier with a higher input sensitivity ( say 1.5 volt for max rated output) will require more input from a preamp to produce the same output as an amp with a lower input sensitivity ( say .75 volts for max rated output). You can't really judge an amps power or headroom by were the volume control is at.

Mike Caldwell

[mikebake]

Hello
You can't really judge an amps power or headroom by were the volume control is at.

Mike Caldwell

THANK...........YOU.............................

[jim campbell]

You can't really judge an amps power or headroom by were the volume control is at.

Mike Caldwell

my audio research pre has a 10 db cut switch on the back to facilitate more flexibility of the volume control.ive also heard tha more than a few lower priced receivers have most of their gain between 0 and 50% of the dial as to increase the wow factor in the showroom

[MJC]

Well if a receiver's digital volume control is at 0db there isn't going to be much head room left. The rated max output is at 0db. Of coarse, peaks will be higher.
The point is, in this case, the rated outputs between the two amps is only a difference of 15w. So that would suggest that the receiver's 85w is over rated, where as the 100w amp would seem to be under rated.
When the volume @ the seated position is the same (measured with a spl meter) and one unit is at 0db and the other is around -24db, that's a big difference for two units that are suppose to be only 15w difference.

[Robh3606]

When the volume @ the seated position is the same (measured with a spl meter) and one unit is at 0db and the other is around -24db, that's a big difference for two units that are suppose to be only 15w difference.

For the speakers to have the same SPL output you need the same power output from each of the amps. So they are putting out the the same power for the the different volume control settings. Could be that 0db may have something to to with setting levels for a 0db reference point for HT. Did you check the owners manual on the reciever. For 85 db average your only going to be using 10 watts or so. That leaves both amps with almost the same headroom.

Rob

[MJC]

For the speakers to have the same SPL output you need the same power output from each of the amps. So they are putting out the the same power for the the different volume control settings. Could be that 0db may have something to to with setting levels for a 0db reference point for HT. Did you check the owners manual on the reciever. For 85 db average your only going to be using 10 watts or so. That leaves both amps with almost the same headroom.

Rob

This is a stereo setup and the Denon receiver was new last year, thus it has a digital volume control.
The Citation 11 pre-amp/19 power amp are '70's vintage, have no markings of any kind on the volume control. But the Citation 19 does have LED lights for each channel. When the sensitivity 1 button is set, the top pair of red LEDs represents 100w. When the 2 button is set the same pair of LED represents 5w.
When the spl meter, at the seated position, reads 80~85db, while playing a half speed master lp the red pair of lights are only being lit occasionnally during peaks, with the "2" button set. That's only 5w peak.
To get the same 85db from the Denon the volume control has to be at 0db, that's 85w. Or so I would think.