I'll be waiting for the report!!!!!
Mike Caldwell
I'll be waiting for the report!!!!!
Mike Caldwell
Oh yeah, Ill be sure to say what I hear.Originally Posted by Mike Caldwell
FWIW, pretty much everyone is recommending these to me over everything else available.
scottyj
A side note - Ultra Sound, (Grateful Dead's sound company), used nothing but Crest amps at one time, but the last time I talked to one of their guys at ProMedia, (Ultra Sound merged with them), they'd turned into big Lab Gruppen users. 'Not sure what their current standard is...
John
Word is Crest is moving manufacturing over to China.
WE know the old Crests were great, but everybody questions the fact that Crest is Peavey now.
Lab is the current fave amp of all the pros right now, and has been for a couple of years.
scottyj
Scott
I did not care for the Labs.
I put them heads up against the Crest 9001s and the Crest smoked them,especially on the subs.
I have only demo"ed the Powersoft amp.I have sold a few of them but they are gawd awful expensive but super powerfull.
If I was going to replace all of my Crests,I would go PowerSoft.The amps are brutally powerfull and sound excellent.Not mushy sounding like the Labs.
The only problem that I found with the P.S. was that the amps are super deep.
Only one rack space but too deep for my existing racks.I would have to reconfigure all of my amp racks for the depth of the P.S amps.
Thats my story and I"m stickin to it.
Oldmics
My other friend, Shorty, doesnt like the Labs either.
You know what? There are amps available! Crowns, Crests, QSC,s, Labs, so, I WILL find something I dig the sound of.
scottyj
I played with a Lab Gruppen FP-3400 last night, its ok, but thats about it.
It does have power, and does sound clean, but lacks the balls of traditional big power supply amps. It makes some bass, but sounds slightly anemic to me, just doesnt have that weight I want. I see why everyone goes double the rated power with amps like these. I only need 400w a woofer, but, had I tried the FP-2600 with its rated 800wpc@4ohms, they just dont have the reserve power, and clipping is a big no-no. The FP-3400, has 1500wpc@4ohms, and I even set the amp to only let me put out 1150wpc, but, I just dont like limiting, I would rather have an amp that can be pushed. The amp did run with out any audible signs of stress, and didnt thermal on me, but...... no balls. Notes werent as defined as I think they are with a Crown amp.
My friend Shorty is bringing yet another amp that his company makes, a more traditional class AB amp with a HUGE PS. We will see what this sounds like. 1000wpc@4ohms, 5hz-100khz, conservatively rated. If this works to my satisfaction, they have yet another amp, specifically designed for sub bass duty, 1600wpc@4ohms, class AB, this amp has 48 output devices, 2 of these for the Widget subs, JBL 2242 loaded. 24 output transistors per channel, that should be able to deliver the goods to the power hungry 18in JBL,s?
It is gonna come down to the Crest CA-9, or the Crown 2402 for my 15,s. I have to say that at this time, I am still partial to the Crown sound.
Slightly off topic, right now, I have Crown MX-4 crossovers on my full range, man, its soooooooooooo clean, transients are so clean and sharp, no overshoot or ringing. Very precise, yet totally analog, and non fatiguing. Analog processing makes highs and mids that are far beyond what I have ever achieved with DSP processing, the finesse is fantastic. Track # 17 on The Eargle on Everest CD sounds IMMACULATE! And NO digital glare whatsoever. Definitely leaving these in the setup, and putting a modified Crown VFX-2A in to drive subwoofer and tweeter amps, they are just remarkable sounding.
scottyj
Then ive ordered a used Crown K2.....hope to get it before the weekend. Soooo excited
Tim
To my ears, there is still something about the way Crown sounds on bass.Then ive ordered a used Crown K2.....hope to get it before the weekend. Soooo excited
Tim
scottyj
Thank you, interesting reading.
Do you think an improved PS won't help due to limiting effects?
(A bit OT: Once I read a serious and very convincing article about a three phase PS, they used three transformers, for an AB amplifier
___________
Peter
The only 3 phase PS in an amp that I know about is the old Crown Macro Tech 10,000, that required a 3 phase electric service to operate. But, I dont need that much power. And no longer made.Thank you, interesting reading.
Do you think an improved PS won't help due to limiting effects?
(A bit OT: Once I read a serious and very convincing article about a three phase PS, they used three transformers, for an AB amplifier.
___________
Peter
With the newer style amplifiers, the small switching PS doesnt store much onboard current. So, even though they are in fact fast, without enough onboard storage of current, the transients, and sustained power output are where the amps dont deliver what I want. Especially when your operating at times of the day when the electric consumption in your area is at peak demand, you cant get the juice out of your system. Thats why so many amps now have power factor correction. Although, many of the newest switching amps have more current storage than they used to.
The other side of the PS coin is that amps with big PS make heavier sounding bass. When the kick drum thumps, you feel it hit your body. With many of the new style lightweight designs, the sound is there, but the weight is somewhat anemic. You just dont FEEL that bass hit your body. I find that many high power, lightweight amps sound pretty good actually, but not as full sounding bottom as a more traditional amplifier. Some of the newer amps, however, have a very fast sound, the bass has that snap and growl, scary sounding, but, still lacking in the extreme bottom end frequencies. I love when you hit a really deep note in a recording, and you feel the building shudder.
Another thing I have found, is that amps with very large power supplies dont run out of steam, and if you flash the clip indicators once in a while it doesnt run out of gas. With the newer amps, its very audible when you hit the clip limits, like a hard knocking sound. Almost like the woofer broke.
Now, with all that said, of everything available, I still find Crown has a unique sound on the bottom end that no other amp has. Especially in the transient punch department.
American iron makes the best bass, IMHO!
scottyj
Nicely said.American iron makes the best bass, IMHO!
(Clipping is really annoying.)
__________
Peter
Yes, sustained clipping is annoying, BUT, a good amp for bass is one that can handle a peak burst with ease, even if the amps clip indicators flash.Nicely said.
(Clipping is really annoying.)
__________
Peter
With pretty much every single lightweight amp I have tried, you CANT hit that clip indicator at all. The minute you do, its very audible.
scottyj
I still love the whole package of my JBL drivers and Crown Macros in the big Ballroom!
It reads as if your changing your position regarding a macro power supply softness.
Not a question, merely an observation.
Scotty.
One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db
My dad came in to listen to what I'm doing, and he looks at those old Crown MX-4 xovers, he says I remember those.
I played the Overture of 1812 off the Eargle CD for him, he said the mids and highs were fantastic. He knows I need more power for my 15,s, and he is in from last week, its his birthday, ol' dog turned 70, but he can still hear what he likes.
His opinion is, I should stick to Crown as well. We played a few tracks, and both agreed the system is sounding good. I put the old crown xovers in 2 days ago, and my mids and highs, even my underpowered midbass are just sooooo friggin clean and clear sounding.
scottyj
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