Look at my new babies...Altec 846Bs w/EV Tweeters!

[Zilch]

Lets get someone to try any of the below???

I ain't addin' no $756.20 tweeter to a $500 Valencia, nope, nope.

[sourceoneaudio]

I ain't addin' no $756.20 tweeter to a $500 Valencia, nope, nope.

I thought you would like that one. Very interesting driver eh?
That last auction sure took the value up on the Valencia.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=013


I would like to hear these drivers on a set of M19's with the x-over I suggested 10k low pass on the 802-8G, and 10k high on Fostex. I think that it would be very interesting.

[scott fitlin]

I thought you would like that one. Very interesting driver eh?
That last auction sure took the value up on the Valencia.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=013


I would like to hear these drivers on a set of M19's with the x-over I suggested 10k low pass on the 802-8G, and 10k high on Fostex. I think that it would be very interesting.

They are supposed to be REALLY GOOD!

[Storm]

That last auction sure took the value up on the Valencia.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=013

And, this one that just sold via Buy It Now for $1500.00!

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-ALTEC-LA...QQcmdZViewItem

-Storm

[sourceoneaudio]

They are supposed to be REALLY GOOD!

Yes I would believe that. Like I said, I think they would most interesting with the above combination, or any 12" or 15" two way array. Kind of the same principle as the K2-S9800 super tweeter, or the Everest.

J/S-S1A

[Zilch]

Factory curves:

http://www.bmspro.info/photos/bmspro_info/bms-4550.pdf

http://www.bmspro.info/photos/bmspro...bms-4552nd.pdf

[Zilch]

One thing I would like to reiterate to fellow forum members, we had 12 pairs of ears ava. for the listening session....

Izzat counting pets?

Who was there?

[sourceoneaudio]

The host Jack, Jeff, Tom, Andy, Storm, and Jacks best friend of 45 years. Animals only the birds in the neighborhood. Sorry on the head count error, 6 pairs of ears. I must have had to many beers........ That's 6 left ears and 6 right ears. 12 total.


J/S-S1A

[kelpforest]

This is Tom and it was a privilege to listen to so many variations of the 846's. I've had mine since 1968 and always thought they needed a high and low end. The stock 846 is awesome as is -no mods- but needs some tweets and a self-powered sub to bring it into the 21st Century. All other 846's (A & B) with mods were deficient in some way in my opinion. So, adding whatever you want for the UHF and subs is also left up to the user but I feel something is necessary. That’s a lot to say about a speaker created 40 years ago. Jack did an excellent job of building the array for us to eval. And thanks to Storm for the "B" models. A great time was had by all.

[Zilch]

This is a secret plot for Jack's review:

[jackgiff]

Ever since the reception of the BMS drivers went a little bad at the Comparo, Zilch and I have been burning up the PM wires trying to figure out what went wrong. After originally hearing them with the Zilch filter fix, the original BMS with no filter sounded better in my mind. No more!

Due to a communications misunderstanding, I had the fix wired as a series LCR filter across the driver, while the values Zilch gave me were for a parallel LCR filter in series with the driver. The series connection across the driver actually gave a 3 db boost to the midrange, and cut the HF at 20 KHz by 3 db. Getting it wired correctly makes a large difference. Now the fix definitely improves the output, rather than messing it up. It is probably better to ask for clarification than to assume.

+/- 3 db response is good enough for most speaker manufacturers, in fact it may be a goal. But it ain't good enough for the ZilchLab. And when I get my Behringer DEQ2496 so measurements can be made, it won't be good enough for the JackLab either.

I apologize for trying to sell a pig in a poke at the Comparo. I wish you could all come back and listen to them now. You may not think it is the ultimate fix, but I doubt you will find them "flat or dull."

Jack Gifford

[VTUBE6]

This is Tom and it was a privilege to listen to so many variations of the 846's. I've had mine since 1968 and always thought they needed a high and low end. The stock 846 is awesome as is -no mods- but needs some tweets and a self-powered sub to bring it into the 21st Century. All other 846's (A & B) with mods were deficient in some way in my opinion. So, adding whatever you want for the UHF and subs is also left up to the user but I feel something is necessary. That’s a lot to say about a speaker created 40 years ago. Jack did an excellent job of building the array for us to eval. And thanks to Storm for the "B" models. A great time was had by all.

All, thanks for all the info from the great speaker shootout. While I know short term listening won't allow you to conclude a whole lot, I'm sure it was a blast. As most of you know, I ordered the BMS drivers for my Valencia 846Bs. Well, I finally got them installed yesterday. I also did a few simple mods to facilitate using better cable both inside and the exterior binding posts. I was going to use good posts, but decided the $4.99 posts from Rat Shack were adequate for these speakers (for now). First, let me say that my experience with the 8ohm 4550s is the a bit diffrent from what you guys experienced on Saturday. In my set up I hear the following: better overall balance and coherency with the 15" driver, BIGGER soundstage...the music now sounds like it's coming from players 6 feet tall, and not 4 feet tall. I also here better microdynamics overall across the whole HF spectrum...just better balanced. I must caveat that by saying at low listening levels the stock drivers performed a little better in terms of dynamics, but I think these drivers would truly excel at low level retrieval with better caps in the x-over. I know there is some hidden potential there, I just have a hunch (I have more intuition than smarts, so we'll see). I can also say that with the improved wire and binding posts (albiet, some better cable too) the bass is more articulate and seems to go lower...I think it carries just a slight bit more weight. We'll see what new caps do for it, but I do think I might be asking for a bit too much here for the bass. I agree with the group that when the HF is turned up, it gets a bit harsh...this again, may be attributable to inferior caps (again, a hunch). I spent a good five hours listening last night to my reference CDs and cuts while the cable and drivers were burning in. I left the session (at 2AM) feeling satisfied, albiet scheming for more low level detail. Today, after letting a low level signal pass thru the system over night, I felt the sound was even warmer and more engaging. I don't believe the warmth is hiding anything though, the detail is there, it's just easy to listen too. One thing that I also feel is these speakers now want more room to breath. My current listening psn is 12 ft rom the front baffle with 5 feet from the front wall to baffle front. I don't think this is adequate now. These speakers are now sounding BIG. It's hard to describe, but I think a 20 x 30 foot room or larger would be about right. I have the space downstairs in my home theater area, but I need to give my back a rest. Carrying these speakers around is a bit of a load. Yes, I'm too lazy to wipe the floor after using a hand cart (I don't have a wife these days...just ex's. Anyway, I don't feel these drivers are laid back in the least, they sound just about right. With the attentuation turned down to psn "7", they strike a much better balance with the LF driver to my ears and in my system. With the old drivers I had them set at about "3", which increases the HF output. BTW, I am using two parallel SET amps (18 wpc) with a quad of WE 300Bs. The synergy is superb! One other note, I am a big believer in "wire makes a difference". With the BMS drivers in place, they respond to the cable that is used. When I stuck my SUPRA SWORD cable in last night, the soundstage absolutely transformed. It got big, well beyond the speakers big. That's when I noticed the music emerging from normal sized players and not pigmys. Quite frankly, with a 1.5" tilt back, I don't think these need stands, they are just about right. I definately didn't get that from the stock drivers.

So, overall I am quite satisfied. I know it is a combo of BMS drivers, improved hook up wire, binding posts and cable...I don't know which contributes most to the upgraded sound, but together it just works for me. As I mentioned earlier, I think we can take the BMS driver up a notch with 21st Century capacitors. I am going to order the Sonic Craft caps tomorrow; they have some very nice reviews out there compared to the expensive big boys. It will be about a $105.00 dollar investment, so I think that's reasonable. My goal is to get a bit better bass articulation and a bit more low level detail from the HF drivers. After that, I'm not sure how much more can be expected from these speakers.

Again, thanks to all for the great effort during the comparo, we all appreciate your efforts. Oh yes, one more thing, I too believe these need a separate tweeter. The BMS is good, but I think a little more decay and "hanging" notes is in order. I'm going to borrow my buddy's ribbon super tweeters after I listen to the caps burn in for 4-500 hours. The tweeters kick in at 14k and go to 35k, sounds high, but they really do make a difference in most systems, but they do not bite like you would expect ribbons to do (of course, 14k and up is pretty high, so it's more "air" than anything else). More to follow!

[Zilch]

Hi, Vtube6!

Thanks for your excellent review.

Let me suggest you also order the requisite parts to add the compensation filters after your crossovers:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...&postcount=659

You may find the tweeters are not necessary once that is operating. VHF will magically "appear."

I'm listening to it right now, myself....

[VTUBE6]

Hi, Vtube6!

Thanks for your excellent review.

Let me suggest you also order the requisite parts to add the compensation filters after your crossovers:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...&postcount=659

You may find the tweeters are not necessary once that is operating. VHF will magically "appear."

I'm listening to it right now, myself....

Thanks Zilch...I can't take the drawing and put something together yet, but I'll find something on the net or a book that tells me who to read and put this together. I skipped both typing and electronics in high school and have been paying for it ever since. Any good links on the top of your head to get me started? Thanks again.

[Zilch]

Any good links on the top of your head to get me started? Thanks again.

Sure:

http://sound.westhost.com/beginners.htm

I have parts on order for the BMS 455x/846B compensation filter. As soon as they arrive (later this week, probably,) I'll build one up and test, then I'll post a parts list so anyone can build a pair.