Look at my new babies...Altec 846Bs w/EV Tweeters!

[loach71]

EV was notorious for changing the driver loads in their systems.
I changed my KHorns in a similar fashion - SM120A with a JBL 2426 comp driver and a JBL 2404 baby cheek tweeter, all in a custom made enclosure sitting on top of a JBL 2220A in a 200Hz horn. Made a four way KHorn -- which is run with 4 way active crossover -- with a BGW 750 for the KHorn, a BGW 250 for the JBL 2220A, and BGW 150s for the JBL2426 and 2404. The system is crossed over at the following points:

KHorn woofer - 25 Hz hi pass - 400 Hz low pass
JBL 2220A horn - 400 Hz hi pass - 930 Hz low pass
JBL 2426 / EV SM120A horn -930 Hz - 9.3 KHz low pass
JBL 2404 - 9.3 KHz hi pass - 25 KHz low pass

This rework removed that objectionable "honk" in the KHorn - especially in the voice band. Maybe the KHorn should have been a 4 way system in the first place?

[SEAWOLF97]

dear old Dad left me his pair of VOTT's. They were EV Wolverine drivers. Dont remember the model numbers. everything was dead xcept LF.

[loach71]

Another fine example of surreptitious driver swapping... LOL

[Zilch]

The x-over looks re-done.

In what respect?

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...437#post147437

check the x-over for a true band pass so you have no overlapping frequency's and impedance dips.

Didn't happen.

I'm reminded of a recent article upgrading EV T35s in Klipsh to 2404H....

Let me know what you think of the pictures.

Very well done, Storm.

Edit: Article is "Replacing the Klipschorn Tweeter" in AudioXpress, 2/2005, subtitled "Tweeter Fix for Vintage Horns."

Anechoic response curve for T35 is shown. It drops off precipitously above 10 kHz. Someone should measure a couple to confirm.....

[Tom Brennan]

The fella added a cap for the tweeter and it appears there may a resistor running between the terminals. In that respect.

[Zilch]

The fella added a cap for the tweeter and it appears there may a resistor running between the terminals. In that respect.

NPE....

[loach71]

The EV T-35 isn't a particulary good tweeter. The polished versions make good coffee table conversation pieces.

[Tom Brennan]

Tim---And it's interesting that it's successor, the butt-cheek ST-350, was used with CD EQ. I suspect that many DIYers and Klipsch modders using the horn aren't using the EQ.
http://archives.telex.com/archives/E...350B%20EDS.pdf

Do you know if the EV butt-cheek was a Keele design Tim?

[SEAWOLF97]

It drops off precipitously above 10 kHz. .

10 is cool . The amp only goes up to 10, so a good match (amps with 11 hadn't been produced yet)

I think they addressed that on Mythbusters.....er, no...that was

"The Brown Note"....isn't that what storm is shooting for ??

[Zilch]

10 is cool . The amp only goes up to 10, so good match (amps with 11 hadn't been produced yet)

No joke, actually.

I'm certainly opposed to the "band-aid" approach to fixing vintage speakers with shotgun substitution of crappy vintage amps. A comprehensive analysis of the speakers themselves is the only rational approach for a dedicated curve junkie....

[loach71]

10 is cool . The amp only goes up to 10, so a good match (amps with 11 hadn't been produced yet)

I think they addressed that on Mythbusters.....er, no...that was

"The Brown Note"....isn't that what storm is shooting for ??

I seem to achieved "The Brown Note" in my 2245H loaded 4688 TCB build.

Thanks to Zilcher-oo and his BB6 Pro help!
Too much information here folks...

[Zilch]

It's time we saw some PICS over in that poor ol' TCB thread....

[loach71]

Wll do. I am a bit slowed up right now - twisted my right knee damnit! It looks like a watermelon..

The MDF version of the 4688 worked so well that I started laminating the the Baltic Birch plywood and MDF for the "final" version (if there is ever a final version of a project on this board!)

I was surpised with the 4688 / 2245H variant -- it has no bandpass "boombox" sound. It is "just there" when needed by the program material or the silliness of the owner. Thanks again for the BB6 Pro help...

[Nightbrace]

Yes, they are that good.

I played Pink Floyd and on the other speakers, when I played it loud - Gilmours voice would become distorted. I can turn these up another notch and they sound very clear.

-Storm.

Hmm, maybe there is something wrong with the crossovers on your 846U's. Vocals should be not become distorted with them. In fact Altec's do vocals as good as any vintage speaker I have heard. And they are very satisfying up to 15 kHz. And only on highly intricate high quality material do I ever feel the need to want to go back to my L300's. Trust me it doesn't happen often as I sold the L300's as overall they were not as satisfying, but they did do highs a bit better. But luckily I have my S21's with comparable highs for those highly detailed tracks. If you can notice discernible differences beyond 15 kHz, then you have an amazing ear, because I honestly cannot distinguish any "music" beyond this, but there is more brillance to a speaker that goes higher, its hard to explain. . But there are certainly no vocals above 15 kHz and definitely not Pink Floyd.

Contrary to what a lot of JBL afficiandos say, Altec horn speakers can handle even the highest pitched singers with ease. With some singers vocals come out of the woofers on my Altec 19's and sometimes get a little "fuzzy" on certain notes at the crossover point. Bi-amping took care of this completely, but the amp I was using didn't have the wattage I was wanting for movies. It doesn't happen often enough to worry about, but it sounds similiar to what you are describing. Onw day I'll be building new networks as close to stock spec as possible with better components as there may be some minor issues with the stock networks, but I can't imagine they were any better than they are now than when they were brand new/

All the EV tweeters will really do is re-inforce a certain higher frequency range and I am sure there is some cross-pollination between the Altec horns and the EV tweeters with those networks. Which could give the illusion of better imaging. What they may be doing is the same as what an EQ will do, re-inforce certain frequencies with more volume and perhaps not more information.

I'll find these tweeters in my literature, now that I know what they are, it shouldn't be too hard... I doubt they go much higher than the Altec horns by themselves.

An interesting experiment would be to disconnect the EV tweeters (assuming the rest of the networking is stock) which it appears to be. And compare both speakers this way.

If one sounds noticably better then there may be something wrong with your 846U's. Having not heard either version I am not in a postion to say what the differences may be, but I'd imagine the differences to be very subtle and not as noticeable as what you are describing if they are both operating correctly that is.

If after trying this and they both sound close to the same. But if the distortion you are describing is the same for both, then its obvious that your liking what the EV tweeter is doing to the sound.

However, there's no law that says you can't keep both speakers.

[spwal]

If you MUST have Altec and do not want to consider anything JBL, stop wasting you time trying every Altec under the sun and take my advice and go with the 19's. Especially with a softer tube amp and a better CD player like my NAD with Burr-brown op-amps and some "decent" cables, many of the higher priced cables do more harm than good. I use Magnavox "el cheapo" interconnects. I think I paid $20 for them (and unfortunately I cannot find them anymore anywhere ), but they sound better than the $229 Audioquest cables I tried.

Tubes make Altec's sing and smooth out the harshness in the mid-HF's quite a bit.. And contrary to what many people here have told you, the bass is exceptional, but you gotta choose the right tube amp and output tubes. Some of the poorer tube amps have this problem of not producing enough bass, and I will agree that most will not compare to a Solid State amp for bass, but their are several that work as well as a SS amp as long as you don't need SPL's of over 120 dB (something that I wouldn't recommend for ANY home speaker),

Your selling your other Valencias , are these new ones that good?

Storm--- Please buy an Pass Labs Aleph 3 or aleph 30 for 900-1050. You can sell them in 1 day for the same money. it will blow your mind.

Also, I had 2 wadia cd players (Great Northern Sound 830 and Stock 23). sorry, my NAD cant hold a candle to super high end cdps.

I currently run a fully modified Red Wine Audio Squeezebox as my source and just use the upgraded dac in there. I had a belcanto Dac2 (four of them actually through the years), and ya its better, but not that much better. A little fuller and fleshed out...

STORM PLEASE GET A DECENT AMP. ONE THAT COST 1000-1500 that people like to snap up right away, so you wont get stuck with a white elephant.