I still hope it wasn't the "original" foam in good condition.......
although the likelyhood of that seems slim (most of the foam surrounds for the Altec sectoral horns seems to have crumbled long ago)
BTW -- I like people that speak in absolutes.....
I wonder if Sonofagun could make replacements?...Originally Posted by louped garouv
Just a thought.
-Storm.
Worth a shot! Try to find out.
scottyj
if he dosen't still make them there are a few others at least....
I think he was looking for $125/pair (shipping included) last I saw, but that was a while ago
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=9592
At least someone seems to understand what I'm trying to sayThis is what nightbrace is trying to explain here. I think a better driver and a better x-over network design would yield you results that are true to the human ear, and fill in what is missing. When I get mine totally done I want you to come over for a listen OK? Then you can see and understand what we are talking about.
J/S-S1A
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?t=14731
. Up to ~ 9 kHz, the Altec horns need little help. And there's no truth in him saying that the vocals are distorted on the Altecs and crystal clear with the addition of the EV T-35's. These EV tweeters actually have a similiar response as the Altec horns, and maybe fill in part of the gap, but its at the expense of adding coloration to an already colored speaker; completely changing the sonic character of that speaker. Adding something much higher without ruining the integrity of the speakers midrange response is whats needed if one was wanting to "upgrade" these speakers successfully. At this point its merely speculating as to what these EV's are doing that make them sound so much better, but there has been no talk as about how the addition of these tweeters is "altering" the unique sonic character of the Altec horn rather than supplementing it, which is all its really doing. As to "why" Storm likes this speaker better, its totally subjective, and there's no difinitive reason that anyone can give him except his own ears. There are ways to make them sound "better" by coming up with a better network to incorporate the EV tweeter, but this may or may not be "in-line" with what Storm's preferences are and it may do more harm than good by changing something that he already enjoys. Who knows, the person he bought these speakers from could have had the exact same preferences and built these speakers just for Storm without even knowing it.
Starting off a set of tweeters at or around 9 kHz, would do a lot to add to the overall presentation of the speaker without removing the sonic character that makes them Altec. Even then the differences would only be audible when playing really high quality material (certainly not the material he is auditioning) and its only the crispness and brilliance of the sound that would be perceived as being different and I think that overall they would sound pretty similiar either way.
I propose using a 077 or 2405H with the addition of something similiar to whats used in my S21's to add to the current networks. Starting them off at 8.5 kHz acutually looks about right. When I get the chance I'll run my 2405H tweeters alongside my Altec 19's to see how well they blend together. I imagine that they would work quite nicely. The highs would be added on-axis without the worry of interaction or ruining the sonic character of the Altec horn.
These speakers may have opened his eyes to the fact that there are other speakers out there besides Altec that are good, EV being one of them.. Trust me when I say that if there was truly a way to get my Altec's to play better I would be the first to try it, they have remained stock for a reason, as I'm 100% happy the way they are. When I am concerned with having GREAT UHF"s, I got my JBL's if I need 'em, but no JBL living or dead can make bass like my Altec 19's, nor can they duplicate the unique sonic character of the Altec horn.
It would be a shame to overshadow or add to that sound with anything else. If you don't like it that's fine, there are other speakers you may enjoy more, but saying that these speakers are now suddenly better with these EV's is preposterous. They are no longer Altec's in my eyes, and have a combination of two drivers playing at once with some info from one and some from the other. Like playing two different speakers at once.
There's apparently a 10 dB drop from 1 kHz to 10 kHz, and they need plenty of help in that range.At least someone seems to understand what I'm trying to say
Not leaping to conclusions just yet, but from the information presented thus far, they rather suck.
If you dial the horn balanced with the woofer, they're sonically "dull." If you push it up for highs, you induce a huge midrange hump.
M19 mitigates this somewhat via network filter compensation, but still crashes in the UHF.
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=12305
Wonder if those plots take into consideration the M19? I only notice fall-off with really high frequencies on my 19's. Maybe this is why using the right tube amp is SO crucial as to smooth out the midrange "hump" your talking about. I'll be the first to admit that with the wrong gear these will make your ears bleed.
Mine are still original...just the foam grills are long gone. I do have the original frames that were covered with black grill cloth, though.I still hope it wasn't the "original" foam in good condition.......
although the likelyhood of that seems slim (most of the foam surrounds for the Altec sectoral horns seems to have crumbled long ago)
BTW -- I like people that speak in absolutes.....
Thankfully, perhaps....
Two plots relating to M19 have been presented so far here, and I previously posted a comprehensive simulation showing how that crossover functions. The factory curves were also posted by Dylanl in the linked thread:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...873#post137873
I consider it a recipe for madness trying to "fix" speakers via amp selection. At best, that's an imprecise band-aid that can never solve the problem....
My experience has been that there is a lot of wrong gear then.
Widget
As do I
Is there anything that can be done to "help" the crossovers? From what I gather by taking away too much they are too boring, and by adding too much they'll be overbearing.. There has to be a middle ground that'll make them work.. Unless the only way is the way I've found by using a certain tube amp to power them. Is this why many people EQ Altec? To compensate for what they are lacking? Ironically the same output tubes (7591) sound downright awful on JBL when compared to a true Class A amp.
I still can't believe that you guys doubt me when I say they are now listenable without getting fatigued, compared to stock 846's.
If you dont have a pair to compare them to, stop arguing.
Thanks.
-Storm.
I measured my 802-8gs on a 511b with Radian diaphragms. I measured from 18" on axis and also at 45deg. I used my Tact which has a calibrated mic. The results are amateurish but maybe Zilch will get a kick out of them.
First one is on axis, the second one is 45 off to the side.
Thanks, Shane.
45° is kinda extreme, but there's certainly nobody home out there in VHF on the second one.
I can't figure the horizontal scale very well. At what frequency is that cliff in the HF in your first plot? 7 kHz, maybe?
Is the driver running on any kind of filter in these plots?
If not, it looks like that one could be compensated, assuming, and this is a BIG assumption, the horn would support it.
How do you normally play these? In what system?
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