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Thread: The original Westlake / Sierra / Eastlake monitor

  1. #46
    lfh
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    Yet another pair of oldies

    Utopia (I think this was Pink Floyds private studio, and the console a predecessor to the famous Neve 8078. Does anyone know for sure?) BTW, note the stone diffusor-wall close to the mains. Studio design has progressed quite a bit since those days -- at least w r t acoustics...
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  2. #47
    lfh
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    "Modern vintage"

    Now we're talking the 80:s so this pair might not really qualify for this thread. Here goes anyway:

    Paisley Park Studios (Prince's (or whatever he's called nowadays) studio)

    Click on image 04 to see nice custom Westies used as monitors in the tracking room (direct link).

  3. #48
    lfh
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    Mountain Studios, Montreux, Switzerland

    The control room of Mountain Studios, designed in 1975 by Westlake Audio / Tom Hidley, sporting quadraphonic monitoring, seems to be still in use more or less unmodified:
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  4. #49
    Member michaelg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky View Post
    We used Luxman M series amps in both control rooms. As I recall they were M4000's and M2000's. Does that sound right?
    Studio B was a Luxman driving (I don't remember) but Studio A had Altec passive third-octave EQ and electronic crossovers feeding industrial-series Crown amplifiers driving the Westlakes. I helped install the gear and was there when Hidley tuned them.
    Michael Gillespie.
    204.943.9000


  5. #50
    Senior Member glen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelg View Post
    Studio B was a Luxman driving (I don't remember) but Studio A had Altec passive third-octave EQ and electronic crossovers feeding industrial-series Crown amplifiers driving the Westlakes. I helped install the gear and was there when Hidley tuned them.
    So the Luxman's may have been a later addition, interesting!

    Was the crossover custom-made or an "off the shelf" item?

    Would those Crowns have been the DC300, PSA2 or newer MacroTech versions (MA5002VZ?)?
    Any of these look familiar?
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    glen

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  6. #51
    Member michaelg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glen View Post
    Was the crossover custom-made or an "off the shelf" item?
    As I recall it was off the shelf.
    Would those Crowns have been the DC300, PSA2 or newer MacroTech versions?
    Probably the D150. This was 35 years ago!!

    I think I have some photos .. I'll see what I can find and post them.
    Michael Gillespie.
    204.943.9000


  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelg View Post
    As I recall it was off the shelf.Probably the D150. This was 35 years ago!!

    I think I have some photos .. I'll see what I can find and post them.
    Hi Michael

    Would love to see some photo's of Century 21 Studio A. To this day, it's the only Electrodyne I have ever seen other than the Olive at Cariboo Ranch. Thanks for the clarification on the amp configuration. I do remember John Hildebrand having a guy from Oakwood install a pair of Luxman amps in Studio A in late 77 or 78. I can remember John Smith, Marc La France and I giving them a listening test. I could be mistaken but would bet on it.

    Your name sure rings a bell? Did we meet back in the 70's in or around Winnipeg? I am sure we have met?

    Ken

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky View Post
    it's the only Electrodyne I have ever seen other than the Olive at Cariboo Ranch.
    OK. Now I'm officially confused. What does "Electrodyne" have to do with "Olive" or the Caribou Ranch studio? I certainly remember the Electrodyne at Century and am very familiar with Olive and Caribou Ranch as it was created by a good friend of mine, Wayne Jones.
    Your name sure rings a bell? Did we meet back in the 70's in or around Winnipeg? I am sure we have met?
    Oh, that's quite likely ... Winnipeg is not a large place when it comes to audio. Your name, too, is familiar but, as is the case with virtually all of the other Winnipeg names I have seen on this board, I do not remember. I had a stroke three years ago and my memory still has some significant holes in it . I can remember my phone number from 50 years ago but don't know if I had lunch today!!$%^&*(

    I don't know where we might have crossed. I have been very heavily involved in many, many aspects of music, broadcast, recording, computers, flying, etc. and may have bumped into you in one of a million places! It could even be at one of hundreds of Comdex, NAB, NAMM, AES, NRBA, CAB, WABE, CES, ACM, IEEE, etc., etc. conferences.

    I'll start ... here's my abbreviated bio ... hopefully something here will sound familiar. You tell me where we know each other from!
    • I went to high school in Fort Garry and did Computer Science at U of M (1969);
    • I managed the Griffins, started and managed the Sugar & Spice and Love Cyrcle; I recorded the Sugar & Spice's first record with Randy Bachman and Love Cyrcle was Century 21 Studio's first customer on King Edward St;
    • I was the Chief Engineer of CKY AM/FM. I designed and built the encoding equipment for the world's first "surround sound" FM broadcast (CKY-FM) in conjunction with Pioneer from the "HiFi Show" at the Fort Garry Hotel in the early 70s. I designed and built the first radio multitrack studios in Canada for Moffat Broadcasting when I moved CKY to Polo Park from Main Street; I designed and installed the "110 Grandson" consoles built for us by Auditronics in Memphis and designed and built the monitor amplifiers which later led to the creation of Orange County Electronics;
    • I designed, renovated or installed over 30 AM, FM, TV stations and recording studios in western Canada; the four last all being in Winnipeg ... CKND-TV, CJUM-FM, CKJS-AM and Finucan Recording Studios (I was a minority shareholder in Finucans for many years).
    • I founded the company and designed all the professional audio signal processing and monitoring equipment manufactured by Orange County in Winnipeg and marketed through our offices in San Francisco and Minneapolis; we sold thousands of units to all the major networks and labels and everyone from the FBI to NHK Japan to Vatican Radio; our "Stressor" product was fundamental to the "disco sound" ; Our processors were standard issue with all Solid State Logic (UK) consoles and all "beautiful music" FM stations; We also private-labeled our products for RCA and Philips;
    • Under contract, I designed the "Laboratory Series" monitors for RW Oliver Electronics using handmade drivers provided by Foster ("Fostex") in Japan; I founded Interlake Audio with Bob Oliver and Ted Telesky and introduced the Fostex monitors as well as their electro-acoustic drivers, microphones, headsets and monitor amplifiers to the North American pro-audio market; two years later, we created the semi-pro "Personal Multitrack" division and introduced the multitrack tape recorders and mixers;
    • In 1981 I opened one of Winnipeg's very first computer retailers ("Qwerty Datasystems" located in the Convention Centre) specializing in Victor 9000 / Sirius I microcomputers and vertical application software;
    • Through my consulting company ("Gray Research Group") we developed multi-user, multi-tasking operating systems with Digital Research (Concurrent CP/M86, Concurrent DOS, DR-DOS, DR-Multiuser DOS, Flex68K); through Prism Research, we created a very successful database engine known under various names (VP-Info, SR-Info, Prism Procedural Language, etc.) still in use at over 50,000 pharmacies in the USA;
    • We also developed and briefly manufactured a family of PS/2 compatible microcomputers under the Prism label out of our California office;
    • I retired at 45 in 1994 and as a volunteer, I became the "Johnny Appleseed" of the early internet ("FreeNet") and, as President of Telecommunities Canada, succeeded in getting 1,500 Canadian communities connected to the internet; I was honoured by the Manitoba government with an "Award of Excellence for Sustainable Development" and received the Canadian "Internet Man of the Year" award for my efforts;
    • I bought an airplane and took up flying for recreation in 1996; I flew for several years as part of the Flying Colors Precision Flight Team and in 1999, I opened Canada newest and fastest-growing flight school, Flying Colors Pilot Training, at Winnipeg International Airport. We survived 911 and continued to build the business and trained over 1,300 pilots. But in February 2004 I suffered a stroke and, having been told to put my affairs in order, I sold my fleet of aircraft and closed my business. That was very unfortunate as I proved my doctors wrong and survived!
    • I am still in slow recovery and, while working to get my aviation medical back, I am designing home theatres, building and restoring a collection of vintage Ampex tape machines and building a 16-track analog studio for my musician son.
    Michael Gillespie.
    204.943.9000


  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelg View Post
    I bought an airplane and took up flying for recreation in 1996
    I see I'm not the only pilot around here - I imagine there are a few more. I began flying in 1976 - owning a plane is still one of my dreams... (and people think the JBL hobby is expensive!!).

    John

  10. #55
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelg View Post
    OK. Now I'm officially confused. What does "Electrodyne" have to do with "Olive" or the Caribou Ranch studio?
    Michael

    Sorry to hear of your stroke but am happy you are recovering.

    Perhaps I am mistaken but the model of the Electrodyne was the "Olive"?

    We probably met at CKY as I did a short stint there as a DJ on CITI FM. Maureen from Sugar and Spice worked at Century for the year I was there so maybe our paths crossed there as well. While at CJUM I produced a radio show called Men of Music and Ted Telesky was the host. I used to run into Bob Oliver all the time as he was always experimenting with fiberglass horns for JBL drivers at that time.

    We share a passion for flying. I bought a loaded Piper Archer while obtaining my licence back in 83. Even had DME and full auto pilot. I flew back and forth to Winnipeg on a regular basis to visit my son. Living in Regina at the time, I did many cross country flights to places like Florida, Washington DC and Las Vegas. In 1989 divorce grounded me and I have not turned a prop since. I do miss it. Always wanted a pressurised Mooney 201. That was my dream aeroplane.

    Be well

    Ken

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnaec View Post
    I see I'm not the only pilot around here
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky View Post
    We share a passion for flying.
    If you have a few minutes, you guys might enjoy the video on the Flying Colors web-site put together by my students. Lots of neat shots of the city (in February!), especially at night! The opening music is Winnipeg's "Watchmen".

    There's one sequence at 3:40 of a 160kt low overshoot at Beausejour ... care to guess the ROC on the pullup?!

    At 4:53 and 7:53 there are shots of the flight school from the air. Don't miss the spins at 17:25!

    It literally makes my heart ache to watch it, particularly the scene at 16:00.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky View Post
    Even had DME and full auto pilot.
    Cool! I had GPS coupled autopilot in my Gulfstream - it sure helped on long cross-countries. I am particularly proud of the great setups I had in my Katana training fleet ... all the way from steam gauges to glass panel stuff. Our Arrow even had air-conditioning!

    I guess the audio content of this post is that probably most of the transducers in aviation headsets and radios are made by Foster!
    Michael Gillespie.
    204.943.9000


  12. #57
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky View Post
    Perhaps I am mistaken but the model of the Electrodyne was the "Olive"?
    You've got me there!?

    The Olive consoles were designed and built by Wayne Jones in about 1970. It was the very first to use "automation". Only five were ever delivered and the one at Caribou Ranch is still in use today.

    Wayne later started "Amber Electro Design" and produced the famous 4400 series audio analyzers, etc.. He is now with Intel.


    The pic below shows the Olive installation at Andre Perry's "le Studio" north of Montreal. That's where the Police recorded "Every Breath You Take", etc., which was one of the safety masters we used to demo the Fostex monitors at AES.

    Michael Gillespie.
    204.943.9000


  13. #58
    lfh
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    Michael, Ken,

    I'm reading your posts with great interest!

    Quote Originally Posted by michaelg View Post
    Studio B was a Luxman driving (I don't remember) but Studio A had Altec passive third-octave EQ and electronic crossovers feeding industrial-series Crown amplifiers driving the Westlakes. I helped install the gear and was there when Hidley tuned them.
    Very cool! What year was that (c:a)? Was it still just pink noise and 1/3 octave analysis or had the "TDS and LEDE revolution" begun?

    What were the subjective qualities of the early Westlake rooms? I figure they must have sounded rather "live" (with all the early reflexes) but with quite controlled bass -- i.e. enjoyable but less analytical than called for?

    Also, did you compare thoroughly with and without the EQ?

  14. #59
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelg View Post
    If you have a few minutes, you guys might enjoy the video on the Flying Colors web-site put together by my students. Lots of neat shots of the city (in February!), especially at night!

    Michael

    Some great video. Have watched about half of it and had to run. The night shots over downtown are very nice.

    Ken

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfh View Post
    What year was that (c:a)?
    I'm guessing about 1972.
    Was it still just pink noise and 1/3 octave analysis or had the "TDS and LEDE revolution" begun?
    Acousta-Voicing was only a couple of years old. TDS hadn't yet been licensed and LEDE was about 10 years away.
    What were the subjective qualities of the early Westlake rooms?
    Dynamic is the first thought that comes to my mind. Lots of power. But I always thought of the Westlakes as "harsh" (a function of crude dispersion control and lack of time correction, in spite of the external phase corrected EQ) which wasn't helped by a little slap reflection off the ceiling and console which tended to destroy mid-band definition. The bass was well-controlled and tight. Overall, a work in progress, a step in the right direction from what went before. IMHO.
    did you compare thoroughly with and without the EQ?
    No. That would be meaningless. Hidley's approach was an integrated environment, a closed system. Auditioning a "part" of the system alone would be of no particular value.
    Michael Gillespie.
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