jbl haters

[Ian Mackenzie]

No,

I would say its even and as I said there is a revival of real audio.

I went to a shop in Prahan today that was known as a large screen home theatre outfit and it was full of valve amps, Kilpsch, Canton, Dynaudio, PSB and Melody Cantus ribbons. The said people were asking for the stuff over home theatre. Go figure.

We buys lots of Krells and and Halcro was originated here. The uptake of DVD was also interesting.

About my earlier discussion it was by no means an all consuming survey.
The point was and still is why spend $4000-6000 on something that sounds nice but won't go as loud / clean in dyamic contrast/micro dynamics or as low in terms of scale compared what you've already got.

Small speakers just cant do it. On the other hand if those two qualities don't matter then it inapproprate to be talking about comparisons with JBLs imho.

Its a bit like driving a dated V8 and deciding on an upgrade. The Mazda overhead cam 2 litre might be more comfortable and have all the fruit hanging off it but when it comes to passing power there ain't no substitute for cubic inches.

The $8000-10000 level is in the ball park but again why would you spend $10,000 it if you've already got most of that?

To get as big a sound and better sounding you need to go much higher up.

Anyway my 4345 are not stock by any means so the decision to spend under $10K is moot.

Of course if you are starting out its a whole different set of circumstanceand you maybe happy with the $4000 level.

Ian

[Shane Shuster]

About my earlier discussion it was by no means an all consuming survey.
The point was and still is why spend $4000-6000 on something that sounds nice but won't go as loud / clean in dyamic contrast/micro dynamics or as low in terms of scale compared what you've already got.

To get as big a sound and better sounding you need to go much higher up.

Ian

Ian, its nice to hear that you have a lot of choices. I am always interested in hearing how other countries approach audio.

Why are you comparing pro monitors to home speakers? You can go through todays speakers and cherry pick ones that do all the things you mention. I would also mention that most speakers of yesteryear were not 4345 caliber speakers. Is it fair to compare used prices to new?

In a nutshell I guess I don't get the whole "they don't make large dynamic speakers like they used to" thing. Companies still do, they just can't sell them at used prices.

[Rolf]

I have been following this thread, and had no plan of posting in it, but...

In my area of the world JBL was highly seen on as a "state of the art" speakers until about the mid 80's. After that the curve was falling very fast, and has stayed there to the present day.

Almost every person I speak to (that is those who are old enough to remember) talks positive about the JBL range of the 60's to the mid 80's. That is the "large speakers area. When they disappeared the JBL brand got the reputation of cheap no good sound.

And I agree, and understand this point of view. That is why I have the 4343's. No new JBL since the mid 80's can be compared to those until now. This is a guess, as I not yet have heard the new Everest. I hope they will "blow my mind away". If not .... then I think it is "the end" of JBL as a top of the line speaker manufacturer.

I am well aware of the imaging, depth, position of instrument position etc that the "guru" people is listening to. I have listen to systems that does this better than my 4343's, but when I have asked the owner "shall we start playing?" the answer is "we do". When I ask "is this how it sound to you when you are on a concert?" ... classical or rock, the answer is "no, but it should not sound like is it live". ??? What is the reference if not the real thing? Most of the time I "rest my case", and let the person believe what he (or she?) does.

I have come to a point in life when I just don't get bother anymore by these kind of meanings matter any more. I know. I just hope that someday they will find out what is real and what is not.

[JBL 4645]

Did you explain JBL was the first to be used to bring sound to the cinema with just a single loudspeaker placed behind the screen the Vitaphone helped pave the way forwards.

JBL has received the Oscar for technical merits for its contribution in the motion picture industry.

JBL was the first to be chosen for the THX sound system program and it took a mere few seconds for the JBL concept to be sold to me via the Empire’s impressive THX JBL sound power delivery.

So where are these morns, I bet there Bose lovers!

Plus JBL got some rather cool sounding nicknames like Just Bloody Loud JBL , I’ll challenge these little buggers.

Why is it, that most who think oh that’s a great brand name for home cinema use lets buy it. Oh without stopping to think that it was JBL who’s been doing this since 1927 yeah go figure.

80 years now 80 years JBL has been around and still packing them in at the cinema, nearly 85% of the world’s cinemas use JBL.

[LowPhreak]

JBL 4645 -

I think what you're missing is the notion that it doesn't matter much to the Kool-Aid-drinking audiophile cognoscenti that JBL has ruled the theater-sound world, or pro/live sound, or recording. Those facts are actually a turn off, because they figure those types of speakers were designed for those venues, but not for in-home "accuracy". They assume that the "leap" cannot be made.

[greyhound]

the people i speak to think that there speakers sound BETTER than a live performance.
they say that music sounds bad in a concert hall!. live music should sound like at there homes, if it doesnt they blame the roadies and engineers.
so they twist it around. Maybe because they have to if they dont want to lose the discussion.
if they would agree that the music in their livingroom sound dull en to clean they are acctualy saying. my 10.000 dollar speakers cant deliver the real thing.

[Tom Brennan]

"Those facts are actually a turn off, because they figure those types of speakers were designed for those venues, but not for in-home "accuracy"."


Indeed, audio is one of those activities in which the amatuer hobbyist thinks his tastes and skills are more refined than those of the people who actually do it for a living.

As though some weekend warrior putz who welds his broken lawn furniture with a buzzbox were to criticize the skills of boilermaker and pipefitter high pressure code welders.

[Rolf]

As usual ... None read my comments. Why do I bother ...

[LowPhreak]

I read your comments before Rolf, and I think your observations are correct.

Hell, you should come over to my house...nobody listens to anybody around here! I am often found in the corner babbling to no one in particular.

[Robh3606]

Those facts are actually a turn off, because they figure those types of speakers were designed for those venues, but not for in-home "accuracy".

That point of view always surprised me. If the monitors, any by the way not just JBL, were good enough for the artist and producer, why wouldn't they be "good enough" for home use????? I never understood that rational unless of course you see it from the point of view that all monitors cannot do soundstage depth and imaging.

Rob

[Tom Brennan]

" unless of course you see it from the point of view that all monitors cannot do soundstage depth and imaging."

Which if true can lead to the uncomfortable conclusion that depth and imaging are unintended by those doing the recording and are actually forms of distortion.

In any event depth and exagerrated soundstage are so willy-nilly and unpredictable that they are undoubtedly often forms of distortion.

I recently heard a Dynaudio system in a hi-fi store that placed the snare drum in a Madonna song behind me and to the right, yet on my Altec 605s the snare drum is placed dead center in the mix. The Dynaudios sounded, ah, "interesting" but I believed the 605s.

[Titanium Dome]

" unless of course you see it from the point of view that all monitors cannot do soundstage depth and imaging."

Which if true can lead to the uncomfortable conclusion that depth and imaging are unintended by those doing the recording and are actually forms of distortion.

In any event depth and exagerrated soundstage are so willy-nilly and unpredictable that they are undoubtedly often forms of distortion.

(snip).

Which leads us back to personal preference as the arbiter of what sounds "right" rather than sonic perfection. If someone (or a group of audio bullies) determines that a particular sound is the correct sound, those opinions may be rooted entirely in an attractive distortion of what was intended.

BTW, I don't have a problem with that, as long as someone isn't a dick about it.

[boputnam]

...They said people were asking for the stuff over home theatre.

I've had same experiences, here.

I think the newness and fullness of 5.1 - 7.1 was quite attractive. To be able to (nearly) emulate the cinema experience without your shoes sticking to the floor was damned appealing. However, 2.0 was lost in the process. As the DVD newness has become routine, people now find they cannot get good 2.0 out of their processors.

Quite a few neighbors have asked me to help them get better stereo - invariably, it was lost in their selection of "integrated" surround amp.

[Shane Shuster]

That point of view always surprised me. If the monitors, any by the way not just JBL, were good enough for the artist and producer, why wouldn't they be "good enough" for home use????? I never understood that rational unless of course you see it from the point of view that all monitors cannot do soundstage depth and imaging.

Rob

I can see the point. (I use studio monitors though)

1.A lot of monitors are meant to be soffit mounted or at least eq'ed.

2.The throw of some of them is often wrong for home use. Like how sitting 12 ft from a little nearfield or an A-5 isn't the best.

3. Looks wise they can be considered industrial (or just plain ugly)

4.Artists and producers using them doesn't mean anything. Look at the fads that go through the studio recording world. I am not convinced top sound is a priority for an artist or producer. (nor should it be)

[LowPhreak]

There's your chance bo, if you have any 'undesireable' neighbors: try to turn them into audiophiles. They'll either go stark raving mad, bankrupt, or both.