jbl haters

[Zilch]

I wish there was a current model today by JBL comprable to the L100.4311.4312,etc;. It is not a good thing that I have to sell the JBL name on just the vintage stuff. There isn't much of that stuff left. If your going to sell at best buy then sell a speaker that catches the imagination make it sound like the L100 and everything will be ok.

Read Don's synthesis of the role of the L100 et. seq. in the evolution of JBL here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...047&#post12047

[Titanium Dome]

(snip)

I see you didn't include "Burger King" in your dishes. I agree with your philosophy but I might ask how many of your systems are purchased from Best Buy? I am sure I can do the same thing you talk about if I had a vintage set for every type of music there is. My budget doesn't allow me to have caviar or prime rib, I can only go to Burger king but when I do I would like to think that the meal I'm buying is well worth the money I'm paying for. I guess I'm just satisfied with the burgers of the world.

(snip)
:

A fair question deserves a fair answer.

My first pair of L7s came from ABC Warehouse, a Best Buy competitor in the Great Lakes.

My LX300s came from Highland Appliance, now out of business, but another Best Buy look-alike.

My E50s came from Fry's Electronics.

My Simply Cinema set came from Montgomery Wards on clearance.

Some of that gear wouldn't even come from Burger King, but from White Castle or Weinerschnitzel.

The E50s beat L100s in almost every way, though they get even less respect than L100s around here. These moderate-sized bookshelves are better in so many ways, and they cost less than L100s at original prices, not even counting inflation. I paid $273 each for my brand new L100s. I paid $71 each for my brand new E50s on clearance (normally $249 each).

[kingjames]

You were talking about the marketplace at large. This forum is hardly representative.

Despite that, there's plenty of members here will tell you what sucks, and why.

That doesn't mean there aren't others who like it, of course, and in some cases, will pay big bucks for it.

Sorry I haven't figured out yet how to remove a line quote from the entire quote yet. I'm working on it.

I admit I haven't heard much in my life in the way of System's,never had the money to just go out and get the best,whichever one's they may be.
What I liked about JBL is that I felt I never really had to as I was satisfied with the sound for whatever reason it might have been.

It's like buying a car when you buy a certain model and you never have problems(rare) with it you kind of go with the same model all the time.

I think we are all looking for something different as we all have different taste and I don't think it possible to all agree on one certain brand, in my situation it was the L100 that hooked me,never had I heard music like that in(my world). In that era I heard a few of the better system's by JBL and they all had a sound of quality but were all expensive for that day.In most cases they were worth saving for.

I can't speak for the Martin Logans, raven's or B/W's as I have never heard any and,maybe they are a better buy,but,with the JBL's that I have it never was necessary to look for a better pair.

I think it fair to say that most folks here became a JBL fan because of the Vintage stuff and,though this forum might not be a representitive of the overall market it does reflect well on this stuff that I read about here or maybe we can use Ebay as a reprensentitive of the older stuff and the prices that this stuff is going for.

Maybe I am using the wrong word here maybe I should just say older stuff and not vintage. I think most products offered by JBL from the 60's through the early 90's were a brand of pure quality.

Somewhere that quality has disapeared in the late 90's for just a mere bookshelf setup. The cabinets were poorly made the drivers in a 3 way setup together weighed a mere 12oz.when removed from the box. It made you wonder if these products were the only thing coming out of this well known speakermaker.

I have always liked JBL speakers ever since I bought that first L100 and never second quessed my decision on any pair that I bought, I to want to experience the new stuff but until they make some new stuff in my price bracket I guess I will just have to stick to the older stuff or vintage stuff whatever you call it.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Why do you guys keep saying you have to sell JBL on vintage only?? What's wrong with the L20T-L200T series from the 80's or the XPL and L 1-L7 series from the 90's??? What about the Performance Series??? When you say vintage to me that's the 70's and back gear. There was plenty of good stuff after that.

Rob

Rob,

I think JBLs presence is perhaps fragmented over time.

That is probably not the right term but they sure as heck tried a number of different approaches in the Consumer side of the business.

While the Ti Series and later the XPL series may have been good frankly a lot of really stiff competition arrived before then and consistently performed and held presence in the market place (in the late 80's and 90's).

At this stage most baby boomers were thinking about others things so they may have stepped off the tread mill at that point with JBL but it was a "haven" for me too accuracy manufacturers.

The east coast and British sound really got momentum and big loud boxes just weren't popular at that stage.

My point is JBL in the 70's and early 80s had a lot more leverage relative to competing alternatives at " the time" in terms of systems that really delivered.

There just weren't many other players doing the same thing and they were in a unique position. I'm talking about the L300 and the 43xx series which sold in droves through the major hifi dealerships.

Then they stopped making those ranges and the 4430-4435 became a purely pro offering. Interestingly the 4343-4344-4344Mk11 carried on in Japan for the long haul. But they weren't widely marketed outside of Japan.

The Consumer stuff after that like the L150, the L220 and the L222 is the serious JBL hater department. Some people refer to them as party speakers.

There is no doubt the XPL's and the L series are impressive and were perhaps an attempt at the accuracy with muscle but a lot of people were sold rightly or wrongly on another sound at the time and I am not sure these later series penetrated the markets successfully.

Perhaps this is what the whole JBL hater thing is about. People just hear the wrong thing at the wrong time and as they say mud sticks like shit to a blanket

Regardless my excursion yesterday told me there is a revival happending in pure 2 channel audio so it will be quite interesting to see where it leads to.


Ian

[jbl]

As with almost anything, some will like the sound of certain JBL systems while others won't. Saying that a certain brand is good or bad is a worthless argument.
BTW. Find out where they're dumping those JBls. I'll be happy to dispose of the "garbage".

[greyhound]

the impression that i get is that alot of folks bought jbl for the simple reason that they could play loud , had plenty of bass and were great value for money. That means younger people bought them and people who listened to house, rap and i ithink this has been a big influence for the public opinion especially the "audiophiles"
once you make a connection between a speaker brand and (how do i put this) immature music the damge is done. Any serious attempt to make a quality product will be ignored because the price tag is high and your not gonna pay thousands of dollars for something that rappers or ravers listen to.
Its the same with chinese and japanese brands. if samsung made the best speaker in the world you wouldnt buy it because its samsung. The name itsellf is equal to junk.

makes any sense?

first im gonna change my picture, bought the century gold weeks ago.

it was like taking an abused dog in your home.
Tweeters were destroyed. terminals broken cabinets scratched.
but i fed them gave it some TLC and they play like they want to thank me for my troubles.

[greyhound]

As with almost anything, some will like the sound of certain JBL systems while others won't. Saying that a certain brand is good or bad is a worthless argument.
BTW. Find out where they're dumping those JBls. I'll be happy to dispose of the "garbage".

I only wish they would mean it. i'd get there before you do

[MJC]

I can't speak for the Martin Logans, raven's or B/W's as I have never heard any and,maybe they are a better buy,but,with the JBL's that I have it never was necessary to look for a better pair.

ML or BW are alright if that is the sound you want. B&W are typical English speakers. As for ML you have to like electrostatic speakers, and although they sound desent, if they were put along side JBLs, say, Performance Series or better, I don't think the ML stand a chance. I'm not sure I would even pick them against the Studio L890, side by side.
We all get used to what we listen to, for instance, Titanium Dome and myself really like our PS PT800s. But if we were to hear the Everest, I doubt either of us would hold the PS in a high a plane as we do now, just because of the Everest's high standards.
Its like years ago I really liked my L55s until I heard the L212s. But the L212s are of such a quality that I still enjoy listening to them, even tho I have the newer and better PS.

[greyhound]

by the way where did they move my topic to.
its bedtime over here

[kingjames]

Read Don's synthesis of the role of the L100 et. seq. in the evolution of JBL here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...047&#post12047

Thanks Zilch that was a good read but I think it confirm's what I have been saying, more than the sound I was talking about the mass appeal brought on by the L100, it made people want to buy JBL.

I was not aware that the 4311 was half the cost of the L100. Had I known that then the 4311 would have been my first pair.

[Titanium Dome]

Thanks Zilch that was a good read but I think it confirm's what I have been saying, more than the sound I was talking about the mass appeal brought on by the L100, it made people want to buy JBL.

I was not aware that the 4311 was half the cost of the L100. Had I known that then the 4311 would have been my first pair.

Maybe, but we would have missed those excellent Quadrex® grilles.

[Titanium Dome]

(snip)
Perhaps this is what the whole JBL hater thing is about. People just hear the wrong thing at the wrong time and as they say mud sticks like shit ti a blanket
(snip)

Ian

Ah, the pungency of a well-turned phrase.

[Thom]

Rob,

I think JBLs presence is perhaps fragmented over time.

That is probably not the right term but they sure as heck tried a number of different approaches in the Consumer side of the business.

While the Ti Series and later the XPL series may have been good frankly a lot of really stiff competition arrived before then and consistently performed and held presence in the market place (in the late 80's and 90's).

At this stage most baby boomers were thinking about others things so they may have stepped off the tread mill at that point with JBL but it was a "haven" for me too accuracy manufacturers.

The east coast and British sound really got momentum and big loud boxes just weren't popular at that stage.

My point is JBL in the 70's and early 80s had a lot more leverage relative to competing alternatives at " the time" in terms of systems that really delivered.

There just weren't many other players doing the same thing and they were in a unique position. I'm talking about the L300 and the 43xx series which sold in droves through the major hifi dealerships.

Then they stopped making those ranges and the 4430-4435 became a purely pro offering. Interestingly the 4343-4344-4344Mk11 carried on in Japan for the long haul. But they weren't widely marketed outside of Japan.

The Consumer stuff after that like the L150, the L220 and the L222 is the serious JBL hater department. Some people refer to them as party speakers.

There is no doubt the XPL's and the L series are impressive and were perhaps an attempt at the accuracy with muscle but a lot of people were sold rightly or wrongly on another sound at the time and I am not sure these later series penetrated the markets successfully.

Perhaps this is what the whole JBL hater thing is about. People just hear the wrong thing at the wrong time and as they say mud sticks like shit to a blanket

Regardless my excursion yesterday told me there is a revival happending in pure 2 channel audio so it will be quite interesting to see where it leads to.


Ian

I'd have to seriously disagree. The JBL hating began long before the L100 was conceived. Basically you had electrostatic types and Kloss and his bunch on one end. (I'm speaking of people who liked those speakers. I know nothing of him himself. ) and a whole group of speakers with almost nothing in common with JBL. Then of course there were Klipsh which actually had some in common with JBL except the drivers were of such inferior quality that I suppose if you thought that was the way to go you would build a K horn and use JBL drivers. Anyway get some old speaker books from when HiFi was new and it was the thing to build your own and you just don't see plans around JBL's (I'm sure you can find an exception) and there are always Americans who think anything foreign is better there were wharfdales (talk about foam rot) with sand filled cabinets (sandwich actually), and quads, and JR's and Rogers, all I was really trying to say is hating JBL was fashionable before they started building crap (I'm not suggesting that's all they build) ESS was knocking JBL before they met Dr Heil. Back when ESS actually stood for Electrostatic Sound Systems and they were using RTR panels. At one time you could build much cheaper speakers with other peoples drivers, before it was discovered that the public would still pay as much, And then I guess JBL discovered it too.

[Thom]

Thanks Zilch that was a good read but I think it confirm's what I have been saying, more than the sound I was talking about the mass appeal brought on by the L100, it made people want to buy JBL.

I was not aware that the 4311 was half the cost of the L100. Had I known that then the 4311 would have been my first pair.

People wanted to buy JBL before. It was just seriously expensive. Even an LE14 with a 175DLH in that little glass topped cabinet was over $400.00 ea might have been $500.00 Unless you wanted to put an LE20 with a D123 in your own cabinet that was about where it started. The 14 with the LE20 was severely lacking. Jbl would severely punish a dealer for discounting or transhipping.
Whole Magnavox consoles didn't cost that much.

[Shane Shuster]

The thing is it quite interesting to see where that design (4345) is in the current market along with many other JBL designs.

One thing is for sure if you go looking for something off the floor that is as big and is at least as accurate and dynamically expressive you will need 2nd mortgage on the house.
Ian

Ian, Is the market in Australia much smaller than the US in terms of brand availability? In the under $10,000 USD range there looks like a handful (new, not used) that should at least be in the ballpark, if not better in select areas.